Don’t Fear What Is Unfolding in This World (2026)

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Well, there's certainly a lot going on in this world today. For this podcast, we decided to talk about some of those things that we see going on around us. And also the propensity, maybe for our human nature, to draw us towards worrying, becoming anxious about the times that we're in today, especially as they seem to be getting quite volatile in some parts of the world. So this is a really important conversation we felt. And for this conversation, we have Joseph from Maine on the line with us today. Thank you for joining us again, Joseph, on the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Absolutely. Super happy to be here. And yeah, I think the the topic of discussion today is something that we can all wrestle with from time to time, especially in the times that we're living in.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Yeah, because we were just talking before we started this discussion off air, and and we saying about that Jesus said in the Bible, he said, In this world you will have trouble, but take heart, I have overcome the world. I mean, how important is that verse to us now in these times that we're in?

SPEAKER_00 1:55

Yeah, I mean, I think we we have the temptation to look around and see everything that's going on, and that kind of comes to the forefront of our worldview from time to time. And what can happen on accident is that God goes from being the powerful, all-loving God that we focus our lives on to almost the background character sometimes, as you worry about all these things, you you sometimes forget how powerful he actually is. And so in these times, it's so important for us to remember all the calamity, all the sin that we see, Jesus paid for it all. And if we've given our lives to Jesus, we can trust that the Good Shepherd is going to finish what he started in us. I think that's so important. It brings God back to the forefront because it's just like when you're when you're holding an object in your hand, that object is very small. But if I bring that object really close to my face, you know, there could be a giant castle in the background, but that object in my hand has just completely overtaken my perspective. It's important for us to move that thing away from our from our faces, put it in its right place, and realize that God is so much bigger than what's right in front of us.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

Because do you think that also with some of the false teaching that's been popularized in the last maybe few decades, do you think that there's now a false expectation that if you follow Jesus, if you become a Christian, somehow you'll be exempt from struggles and difficulties because of like the prosperity gospel and things like that?

SPEAKER_00 3:53

You know, I can speak from personal experience living in the West, that being a Christian isn't something that is just a bumper sticker or something that we call ourselves. It's it's something that you give your entire life to. And when you do that, you start to realize that you're not the Lord of your life anymore. Not that you ever were in the first place, but it's giving the reins over to Jesus and telling him, take the wheel. You know, we know from church history, going all the way back to even the apostles, God didn't spare them from calamity. They faced death, torture, imprisonment, loss, both material loss and and loss that resulted in them even losing their loved ones, laying down their lives. And so if God didn't spare them from that, we can't expect him to always spare us from it. But what we need to remember through all of that is God always has a plan in the calamity. And the promise is not that we won't have calamity, but it's that nothing can snatch our souls out of his hand. And I think about Romans 8 often about you know, no height, no depth, no width, nothing on earth, nothing in heaven can separate us from the love of God. And I think when we read that, we need to remember the context that it was written. It was being written to Christians that were facing a lot of, you know, they were being ostracized, you know, they were having to go through a lot for their faith. But Paul wanted to encourage them that the love of God isn't taken from them just because they're going through uh various trials.

SPEAKER_01 6:04

Yeah, and that that's really important, isn't it? Because, well, when you look at the Apostle Paul, as you say, he he was shipwrecked, he was beaten, he was whipped, he went through a lot of suffering for the gospel. So a very good case study, and I think it's really important to remember the also the value of suffering, even though it seems like it's something, of course, that's not very nice uh in the moment, but actually that God is working all all these things to good in the end, um, for the good of those who love him. And it's it's not easy to face, but these things actually have eternal value, and I think in these times it's important to remember that because I I know I mentioned to you as well that there was a recent event in the UK where a Christian pastor was sadly lost his life when he was walking underneath a sign at a festival and it just collapsed on him and he he lost his life. And of course, there's Christians sadly that come out of this thinking, where was God and and why would he allow that to happen? And so these questions are important to answer because it can cause people a crisis of faith.

SPEAKER_00 7:22

Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, I think that in moments like that it could be hard for us to see a reason why. And you know, the truth of the matter is we we don't know why, we don't know why that happened. But one thing I I constantly try to remind myself, and a lot of people do it as well, I'm sure, is God's ways are not our ways. His plans are so far beyond our understanding. And even though it seems it seems just like a freak accident that resulted in death, who knows what God could work out through that moment. I uh I wish his family, all of his friends, uh my condolences. But uh his his testimony, uh, I'm sure is living on through them. And he's planted a lot of seeds in his life, I'm sure. Uh you know, I'd like to think. Again, I don't know who this is exactly, but maybe someone's been on the fence their entire lives that knew him in this death showed them, wow, I need to be ready. Like he was always talking about Jesus to me. And well, I I know where he is now. He's he's with Jesus, but I've always been on the fence. I need to, you know, and now I'm remembering all these things that he told me over the years. You know, the things like that, things like that can happen and actually end up end up helping people finally come to a point where they're willing to look to a power beyond themselves. And of course, the only true power where we can find worth, meaning, and forgiveness is Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_01 9:09

I think with these things, as you say, it's looking above, isn't it? Sometimes we can get so caught up in the here and now and this life alone that we forget that there is an eternity beyond this short time. So, from the perspective that God is sovereign and he is the one who is above all things, and that we can trust him, that he desires a good purpose in the end, how can that reframe also our perspective when it comes to fear in the times that we live in? As this world gets worse and things are changing very rapidly, how does that change our perspective about our anxieties and fear?

SPEAKER_00 9:54

Yeah, that that right there, that's an awesome question. And I think as we look around and we see everything that's going on, also keeping in mind that we are living in times where there's never been technology like what we have, at least, you know, in the after the flood. And we're getting so much information, we're seeing things happen that typically we never would have known anything about. It's almost like we were just never meant to bear all of this weight and to know all of the things that we know. But in all of that, as we look around, we can remember that God not only loves us, he's not just a distant father looking out for us sometimes, but rather God invites us to come to him and to allow him to be our refuge in these times, to be our pavilion, to be the place that we can go to find peace and rest. Because with everything that we have, with all the time that we spend on our phones, scrolling through social media, seeing news, it's gonna wear down your battery. It doesn't matter who you are. And going to God, seeking him, asking him to help us have faith in these times, to hold fast to that faith and ask him to give us peace. We know that he can give us that. And I I think about too in Philippians, where it talked about, I think it's chapter four, and it talks about peace that surpasses all understanding, you you just see Paul telling the church in Philippi to pray without ceasing, be thankful, constantly, you know, bring your needs before God. And although they weren't living in a time where they had the technology that we had, still the the human condition was the same in their culture as it is in ours. And and I think it's important for us to have that same mentality that we pray without ceasing, that that we find ways to have gratitude to God. Because no matter what, no matter how bad things get here, Jesus Christ died on the cross for us. He's given us a free gift of grace, and we have every reason to be thankful because of that.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

And that's something that the world cannot give or understand, isn't it? It says in that verse as well. It's really it really seems counter to human nature to not feel fear or be afraid when it comes to some really frightening things. And let's face it, some of the things that are happening, and we can see in the pipeline perhaps, could be quite scary things that in our human emotion that would trigger that kind of fear.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

Yeah. In this time that we're in, too, there's I think everyone can be, myself included. I catch myself being very self-absorbed with my needs and with my family's needs. And sometimes I start seeking those needs above what I'm told to seek first by my Lord and Savior, which is to seek first the kingdom of heaven.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:41

And it's an invitation to serve and to love God with all of our hearts and to love our neighbors as ourselves. And it's it's amazing when when we take the opportunities God puts in front of us to do that, suddenly our eyes get taken off of ourselves. They get taken off of our fears and they get put on someone else. And we're being selfless in those moments. We're we're experiencing the gift of giving. It's in those moments that we can treasure that peace that comes to us because it's a peace of knowing that we're we're doing what Jesus left us here to do, to love him, to glorify him, and to love the people around us. Because in that same verse, seek first the kingdom of heaven and all these things will be added to you, which you know is food and clothing in that context. You know, Jesus was also just talking about anxiety. They wondered where their next meal would be coming from. They, you know, they wondered how they were going to clothe themselves. And Jesus said, You're your father in heaven, he loves you. He loves you. If he clothes the lilies in the field, the flowers in the field, if he feeds the birds of the air, he will do the same for you. And so that gives us strength, that gives us peace to now step out and to shine the light of Jesus Christ and whatever sphere of influence we have, whether that's at our occupations, at our schools, whether that's at the grocery store, wherever it is, to look for opportunities to love people. People need love. Like I, this past weekend, I took my family to a fair and I was wearing a shirt. It's a black shirt, but on the back it says, Love God and love others. And we were leaning up against a fence, and this woman came up to me and she said, Hey, I just read your shirt. Can I please hug you? And she just started crying. We embraced each other and I told her, God bless her, and and we had a short little conversation. But it was in that moment, someone, and I really don't know where she actually stood in terms of faith, if she actually had faith in Christ or if she just believed in God. We had a short interaction after that, but in that moment, I was just realizing people's hearts are so heavy. There is so much brokenness all around us, and we are supposed to be salt and light. God can use us as his vessels to love those around us, to speak truth to those around us, and the the harvest is really ripe right now.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

It also reminds me of when Peter went to walk on the water as well, when he took his eyes off Jesus, he began to sink. It really is like you're saying, it's a case of keeping our eyes on him, isn't it? Do you think when we take our eyes off him as as the prize, the ultimate prize, that we can begin this spiral downward into more and more self-focus and eventually more fear that um that we I I mean it is a it's a it's a natural human emotion to to be apprehensive and to have some fear, you know, when things are really shocking and troublesome. But do you think that it's the spiritual strength is what keeps us going and keeps us faithful and keeps us strong in some of the worst times because the strength that God gives us through his spirit that we need?

SPEAKER_00 17:40

Yeah, yeah. Jesus, I think it's Luke 9, he was talking about following him, being his disciple, and picking up our crosses. And reading that verse, it's a pretty daunting verse because it's talking about a cross and bearing a cross. And even the people that were hearing Jesus say these things, they knew what a Roman cross was. They knew that it was torturous, it was a slow death of asphyxiation. But yet Jesus is is using it as this illustration, as this tool of what it's actually like to follow him. Because when we bear our crosses, we're giving up our lives, we're denying our own lives to take up his life. And right after that, he says, those that wish to save their lives will lose it, but those that lose their lives for my sake will find it. Now, to kind of go with what you were just saying, I think it's easy for us because you know, we all we have an indwelling sin nature, you know, we're still in these bodies of Adam. We have this temptation to try to grab the wheel again sometimes from Jesus to try to save our own lives. And very often in those moments when we do that, it's not necessarily self-preservation's a good thing. We need to take care of ourselves, we need to use wisdom, you know, we don't just go out of our way to hurt ourselves by no means. That's that's what I'm saying. But in those moments, when we have opportunity, even if it means that we lose our lives or or we get the bad end of the stick, the bad end of the bargain, if there's an opportunity for us to do something a way that Christ would do it, and to serve Christ and serve someone else for the kingdom, we need to be willing to allow ourselves to be put on that cross. Because we won't have peace when we try to take control of something that we actually don't have control of. It's a constant cycle of realizing we don't have control and then struggling and wrestling tirelessly to get control. But in the moments where we go, you know, my life is not mine, it's yours, God. You hold my life in your hands, you're in control, I'm not. I open my hands to you. We kind of lose our lives for his sake, in a sense, and we allow God to use us and to give us peace, knowing that he's in control and and we're not.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

And there is peace in that because I I felt some peace when you said that's that sentence there that my life is not my own, my life is yours, God. There is peace in letting go of that illusion of control, isn't there? And Yeah, it reminds me of that that phrase that people say, I know not what the future holds, but I know who holds the future. That's so good, isn't it? I love it, yeah. Say that again. I know not what the future holds, but I know who holds the future. Yeah. Yeah. Amen. And uh I think it's Spurgeon who said, When you go through a trial, the sovereignty of God is the pillow upon which you lay your head.

SPEAKER_00 21:22

I love that.

SPEAKER_01 21:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

I love Spurgeon.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

Yeah. So that we know the sovereignty of God brings us a lot of peace because we know we can relinquish that illusion we say illusion of control. But do you think that this sometimes can go too far the opposite way? Where you mentioned wisdom earlier, that it's also important that we use wisdom, we're not supposed to be foolish and try to do the right thing as well in the face of trials. Do you think that sometimes it can go too far the other way where it becomes almost over-spiritualized? Where, like, for example, if you make some basic preparations in light of the times, that sometimes you can get this backlash where folks might say, Oh, you don't need to do anything because God is in control and you're not trusting God if you try to exercise that wisdom.

SPEAKER_00 22:19

Oh, yeah, yeah. I I've seen that before, and I remember early on in my faith being around a lot of people that thought that way. But yeah, it's it's equally important to also realize that God's given us wisdom, He's given us things in our lives. To not only use to our benefit, but also for the kingdom's benefit. And if we just throw caution to the wind, are we actually being good stewards of what he's given us? Because I think I think about you know the parable of the talents. Jesus rebuked the one that buried the talents because he was so afraid of losing them. But the ones that made increase that pleased the master, what did they do? They, you know, they didn't just bury them in the ground hoping that something would grow from them or hoping something wouldn't happen to them. They took what their master gave them and then they appropriately invested it for an increase. So with whatever God's given us, and we all have different life situations, but whatever situation we have, we have a duty and an obligation to do it to the best of our abilities with the best of understanding that we have of how we think God would want us to steward our lives. You know, like as a family man, it's important for me to, you know, put food on the table, you know, and I I think about Paul, you know, he was a tent maker, you know, he preached the gospel, he he was certainly someone who saw the hand of God move in miraculous ways and unbelievable ways, but yet you see you still see Paul being very practical. Like he even told Timothy to mix a little wine with the water for his stomach, you know, to help his indigestion, I think is what the context was. So you see a lot of practicality, you know, even among the apostles, where they were seeing all kinds of unbelievable miracles and the provision of God, they were still being practical and still teaching people to be practical.

SPEAKER_01 24:28

Yeah, and I'm sure you you feel that as a family man as well, that you have a certain duty and responsibility to offer protection for your family in difficult times.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

Yes, yeah. You know, I actually uh I wasn't even planning on sharing this, but I'm I'm gonna share it because it happened uh a few months ago. And I actually I just got done speaking out against some people in the Christian circle and a Christian hip-hop circle that I was part of, and they were saying that Jesus Christ wasn't God, he was rather kind of a lower God than the Father, and I instantly heard that, and I was like, well, that's not right. So I spoke out against it and I spoke out publicly. And after I spoke out publicly, my family and I, we decided that we were gonna go for a walk down a trail in the city that we live. And things have progressively gotten pretty bad in terms of crime and drugs in this area. And so, so there's a lot of, it's really sad, there's a lot of homelessness and a lot of people that are down and out and desperate. And so after I got my family and we got to this trail, we started walking. And I instantly, I almost felt it. I almost felt like a heaviness. And then out of nowhere, a guy riding on his bike went by us and went up the trail a little bit. It's a paved trail, by the way. And then he kind of turned his bike halfway, like blocking the path. And then he just started staring at us. And so I was like, that's very strange. And my wife immediately was like, What's going on? And we had our two-year-old with us, who, you know, she was just kind of walking along beside us, you know, as two-year-olds do. And the guy suddenly he he looked up at the sky while he's on his bike and his eyes rolled back to white, and then his eyes started flickering, like he was uh yeah. And in that moment, I was like, okay, this is a really bad situation. But then I felt anger, I felt an anger, and so in my anger, I said, What's your problem? Because I was hearing my family react to this and it made me angry. And then he said something and he threw his bike down and he started approaching us. And so in that moment, I kind of jumped into action and I ran towards him to put as much space between him and my family as possible. I put my hands up, ready to engage in combat. And he did the same, and we were just kind of standing across from each other with our with our arms up, waiting for waiting for the first punch to be thrown. And I was really thinking about it. I remember really coming really close to taking a swing. But then suddenly, in my heart, I was reminded of Ephesians 6. We wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers in the heavenlies. And in that moment, suddenly, I realized like this is this is a moment where this person obviously like they they looked like they were having some sort of weird thing happen in front of me that might be going on. I thought to myself, I put my arms down, and then I just put my hand out and I said, I rebuke you in Jesus' name. And in that moment, that guy dropped his hands, snapped out of it, said F you, and then got on his bike and rode away. Wow. And it was in that moment, I I I realized, I was like, God, you want us to fight our battles your way and not our way. Because if if I did it my way, who knows? I I I could have gotten hurt and he could have gotten in my family, or I could have really hurt him. I could be in a lot of trouble right now, the way you know that the law is. But in that moment, it was a realization that we we can trust God to fight our battles for us. And I also I I want to say that every situation is different. There are situations where you might not be able to do that, you might have to protect yourself and go hands-on to protect you or your family. But if there's a moment like that and the Holy Spirit speaks to someone and you feel it in your heart that that's a a moment to do things differently, then listen to the leading of the Holy Spirit. Because I'm hoping wherever that guy is, no matter what he's doing, I hope that I hope that that touched him. And I hope that he felt something. And whatever he was going through, whether it was demonic or whether it, you know, was just drug-induced, whatever it might have been, it could have been either, could have been all the above. I just pray that he felt the love of Christ in that moment.

SPEAKER_01 29:53

Powerful story. Thank you for sharing that. And it's definitely a good thing to be talking about, at least at this time, because we are in unstable times in this world, and of course, we don't know exactly the way things are going to go, but we have an idea of what we're facing, and these situations, especially when people have families, and maybe they're the the dad of the family, they feel this urge to protect when it comes to people physically threatening. It's something that we we should discuss in a way that how does our faith play into this and how do we stay consistent through these times? Because it also says that the love of many will grow cold due to the increase of wickedness, so that's another thing to be aware of.

SPEAKER_00 30:44

Absolutely. Yeah, it's really important to not let our first impulse, you know, as of course, as as men, there's you know a way of doing it where we can take control, and then there's a way of doing it where we seek the wisdom of God in those moments. And I remember having a conversation with my with my aunt. We were talking about kind of in-time stuff, eschatology, and things getting really bad. And and she said, Well, I'm really fearful. I don't know how I'm going to make it through. Like, what if people torture me? And and a scripture came to my mind, and it it was how Jesus was talking about people are going to be brought before, you know, judges and in courts. And it says, Don't worry about what you're going to say. The Holy Spirit will, and I'm paraphrasing here, the Holy Spirit will give you the words. Yeah. And so I think there's also just an aspect as we look around at the world and we look at the way that things are going. It could be anxiety-inducing to wonder how we're going to get through it, what we're going to do. But we can also trust God, God in the right moment will give us the strength to do what we need to do, whether that's not deny our faith and face whatever we have to face, or or whether that's being able to talk our way out of a situation and possibly also share the gospel with people that never would have heard it before. Even if we have anxiety with sharing the gospel, I know a lot of people do. There are going to be times where God's going to give us the right words to say to someone, and we can trust him in those moments to come through for us and that his grace is sufficient in our weakness. And it's good that we feel weak because we actually are very weak. We're very impotent in the face of evil, especially against the principalities and powers in the heavenlies and the governments. But God can give us strength, no matter our circumstance, to get through it and make it to the other side. And if that means that we lose our lives in that process, he will give us the grace to do it.

SPEAKER_01 33:03

So it doesn't depend on our strength at the end of the day, because we know we have a Messiah, a saviour, a God who is the king of the universe and he is our strength. And actually, it was just reminding me I've never shared this story before either. So I might just quickly share this short story of an experience I had a few years ago, a number of years ago. Just basically, I was in hospital and there was a patient that was in the hospital as well. It was this female. She was very unwell, you could tell, but there was a lot of things going on with her which seemed to suggest there was something a bit more at the time. For example, she would be up at all hours at night and causing a lot of problems with the nurses. But some of the things she was saying here and there, they seemed to be to suggest a spiritual side to what she was talking about. She was saying things that a lot of people, the general public, wouldn't say in terms of spiritual things that maybe you as a discerning Christian may see that there was an edge to it that seemed spiritual. So just over time I started to wonder if that was the case. And then she became very fixated on me, and she started to almost try and follow me around, and it became a little bit unnerving. So one night I was there in the hospital lounge on my own, and she was in the room over the other side, and she was behaving quite strangely. So I decided, look, I'm just going to pray about this girl because I think there's something spiritual going on with her that isn't good. So I started to pray, Lord, please, in Jesus' name, I pray that this would leave her if there's something demonic going on with her. And I as I started to pray that she began to walk towards me. This was quite late, sort of midnight-ish. She started to walk towards me, and she had her eyes locked on me, and I was sitting in the corner of the lounge. She began to walk towards me, she didn't take her eyes off me, and as she was walking towards me, she had like a magazine in her hands, and she began to rip the magazine piece by piece as she kept her eyes locked onto me. And I was praying in my mind, you know, trying not to fear, just trusting in God, and I just prayed continuously, and then a thought came into my mind maybe you doubt too much, maybe you are not strong enough in your faith, maybe you doubt too much that you can pray against this spiritual thing that's going on with this this lady. And anyway, she carried on walking towards me with her eyes on me, and then she threw the magazine that she was ripping up down on the floor in front of me. Of course, I felt kind of on edge about what was going on here. Then she turned away and she walked away, and I was feeling in my my heart like wow, there there is a bit of human anxiety here, but I looked down at the pieces of magazine that she had thrown on the floor, and I kid you not, literally there was like three or four pieces, large pieces, of separate pages of the magazine that had fallen exactly in the formation, so it spelled out the words demons of doubt. Wow. I was like, what? Okay. But clearly that says to me there was there was a spiritual battle going on there. But I just knew that the anxiety that would that I was facing that I that God was stronger, and I just didn't need to fear that she was coming towards me in this kind of imposing, threatening manner, just staring at me, and yeah, the proof was in the pudding really that it seemed to be spiritual. I mean, how else would that have happened? So but God is stronger.

SPEAKER_00 37:28

Yeah, amen. Amen. Yeah. It goes to show that there really is a war going on, and it's an invisible war at times. You know, we we don't see all the details of it, but we know that our king has triumphed. The war's been won, there's a battle going on. And so in moments like that, you know, hearing testimonies where such things happen, it's just such a such a reminder to me.

SPEAKER_01 38:02

And also the battle is not against flesh and blood, as you say.

SPEAKER_00 38:05

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, and I think it's so important too to realize that the fear and the anxiety that we feel, you can look around at the way that a lot of mainstream journalism, television, social media, etc., it's almost like they know fear cells, right? And that fear sells, and so they want you to get wrapped up in it and and they want you to be overwhelmed by it. And I just I can't help but think, you know, I think whether they know it or not, it's almost like a partnership with darkness, with spiritual forces, because people look around, you know, they they see things that they were never supposed to. That kind of goes into their mind, it bothers them, and then it could open up doors in their lives to dabble deeper into spiritual things that you know that could lead to deeper fear. I know so many people they've gone through something traumatic in their lives, and so and so they seek out spiritualism, and it's a spiritualism rooted in witchcraft and in the demonic. And then their anxiety always gets worse, even though it looks like it's light, it looks like it's natural, it's it's you know, holistic. It's kind of the guise that it wears to draw people in and make their situation a lot worse.

SPEAKER_01 39:43

Yeah, and of course, ultimately, these are all people that Jesus died for, and we know that God desires all to be saved and to repent and come to repentance. So they're human beings made in the image of God, and we do want these people to find the hope and freedom that the gospel brings. So it's not that we want to turn against people, we we want them to come to him and be saved.

SPEAKER_00 40:15

It's like in Ephesians 2, where it says that we were dead in our trespasses and sins, and we're following the course of this world, and it talks about the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience. And then it says, uh, Paul writes, among whom we all once live, talking about I'm kind of paraphrasing here, I don't have it in front of me, but that we also were on that path. We were dead in our sins and our trespasses. But God's grace, God's mercy was poured out upon mankind, and now we have this beautiful opportunity to be made alive again in Christ. It's that wonderful news that we get to share with all those people that are misled. They're looking for peace, they're looking for purpose. It's just in all the wrong places. And yeah, it's not animosity, it's pity that I often feel because I remember what it was like to be there. I remember what it was like to dabble in those things and think that it would give me peace.

SPEAKER_01 41:26

It reminds me of the verse also in Matthew 10 28 that says, And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul, but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. So even if, as you said earlier, even if we come to some physical harm, we don't lose Christ. We will always have Christ and nothing can separate us from him or his love, but we have a mission here to in these last days to rise above the fear in his strength of the things going on around us and to try and reach souls with the gospel before it's too late, because if people don't turn to Christ before it's too late, either before they die or Jesus comes back, then they will spend an eternity in hell. And that is the the worst thing that could happen, and and we just really desire that we can use our time before the end comes, that that we could try and reach out to people for Christ's sake.

SPEAKER_00 42:45

Yeah. I think about how fear can often cause us to not connect with people in a way where we can build a relationship and really share the gospel with them. Sometimes it's fear of not being accepted, it's fear of how a situation might come to a conclusion. But when we give that outcome to God, knowing that we can't always control the outcome of a situation, but God can. Because if we genuinely fear for their souls, if we genuinely love them and care about them, then we will want them to come to a knowledge of the truth. And our own fear can get put to the wayside because we count others as more important than ourselves, which the Holy Spirit can help us do that.

SPEAKER_01 43:58

And that's got to be the uh maturing as a Christian, I guess, hasn't it, in sanctification that he must increase and I must decrease, as John the Baptist said. And that I guess getting to that point of growing in our faith that we can start to care more about other people than us, in the sense that we can put our fear of rejection down the more that our love of God and love of others grows, do you think?

SPEAKER_00 44:33

Yeah. Sanctification, you know, we've been justified in Christ. Automatically gives us a relief from that fear. But then as we go through the rest of our lives and we battle off and on with depression, with anxiety, with all kinds of different things, as we're being sanctified, the love that God has given us and our understanding of that love can grow. The more that we grow in Christ, the more we grow in an understanding and in a love for him. We're never going to be perfect on this side of heaven, but he's slowly perfecting us. And I think also that love, that perfect love that we're all striving for is being perfected within us as it's growing. And you know, just like it says in 1 John, perfect love casts out fear. And so the more that we grow, the more that the object of our faith in God grows, which is God, the more that we come to know God, the more we realize how powerful and how much he loves us and how our lives are laid out before him, the more we grow in our understanding of him, the more our love and our admiration grows. And then the more fear becomes minimized in the face of his glory and in his presence. And so I think taking opportunities to step out and to grow by putting others before ourselves, you know, even if it's mowing someone's lawn, you know, picking up someone's groceries, going over to someone, telling them about Jesus, you know, whatever it might be, whatever opportunities we have, those things help us get out of ourselves, put our eyes on other people, and they open up doors for us to sow seeds into people's lives that will hopefully be watered and God will bring an increase to.

SPEAKER_01 46:35

That reminds me of the quotation by someone that said, for every look at yourself, take ten looks at Christ. I was just thinking as you were saying that just there, it doesn't come naturally to us, doesn't it? This has to be through the power of the Holy Spirit working in us, because naturally we are so frail, we are so prone to take our eyes off things above that it does take that process of sanctification, and it's not it doesn't happen instantly, does it? We we still go through times when we're more strong in the Lord, and then there's other times where we begin to drift and we have to be reminded. No, keep your eyes on him, because I s I remember someone told me once in Matthew 24, 6, where it says, And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, see that ye be not troubled. In some versions it says, but see to it that you are not alarmed. And that is a command, isn't it? It's a correction because we're so prone, we'll see wars and rumours of wars, and we're so naturally prone to be alarmed. We have to be reminded, you know, see to it, don't be alarmed.

SPEAKER_00 47:54

Yeah, oh a hundred percent. You know, and where it talks about God, I think we were talking about this a little bit in the beginning of this episode, talking about how we have an invitation to come to God and let him be our refuge, refuge in times of trouble. And that comes from Psalm 46. And in Psalm 46, it talks about wars. It says that the nations rise against nation mountains melt, but God, you know, breaks the spear, he bends the bone, kind of paraphrasing here. And then it talks about be still and know that I am God. And so, in the midst of all that, in the midst of all of this chaos and all this calamity and whatever's rising up in our nations, we are commanded to be still before God, to trust him. And we can also, because I'll be the first to say that I don't always trust him the way that I should. I find myself falling short every single day. But God proves himself again and again and again. And it doesn't always have the outcome that we want it to, but we know that all things are being worked for the good of those that love him, and we can trust him. He knows what we need, he knows what we want even before we ask, and he will give us our needs in the times that we need them, and he will give us refuge in the times of our trouble, no matter what our troubles are. And even when we struggle in our faith, we know that he remains faithful to us and he will strengthen our faith through his faithfulness.

SPEAKER_01 49:41

And you've got to have the rough with the smooth to grow, haven't you? You've got to go through the refinement and the fire uh to come out like a precious stone. And so when we talk about the purpose of trials and suffering and things that are maybe seem fearful to us at the time, there is a purpose. It reminds me of the crucible in Proverbs 17 3, it says the crucible for silver and the furnace for gold, and Jehovah tries hearts. And there's this amazing picture in Proverbs there of this crucible where they used to bring out the precious stones through the hottest part of the fire, and they used to melt it down, and it's a really profound symbol of of the purpose of these things, and it says on here, let the refining fire prepare you. Malachi 3 3 says, He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver. The meme says, Be made ready. And that's so important, isn't it? To see it through this lens, through there's such strength and power in this spiritual lens as defined by the word of God.

SPEAKER_00 50:54

So yeah, you know, I think about Joseph, you know, telling his brothers uh what you meant for evil, God meant for good. And you look at his life, you see trial after trial, you know, being sold, rejected by his own family, and then going into Potter for his house, being falsely accused, then being thrown into prison for many years. Just, you know, this young man eventually, you know, grew into a man basically just in captivity. But at the end of all of it, God was preparing Joseph for the work that he had for him. And in the same way, too, we're all being refined more and more into the image of Christ. And going back to Ephesians 2, it says that we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works. We're saved by grace through faith, not because of our works, but rather we're saved, and God gives us works to do in our salvation. And so there's a purpose in all of this. There's a purpose in our suffering, there's a purpose in our pain. And God doesn't put any of it to waste. He doesn't roll his eyes. It reminds me of a quote in a song by Beautiful Eulogy called, I think it's called omniscient or omnipotent. And he says, God doesn't roll his eyes, but rather he sympathizes and reminds me all of my needs have been provided.

SPEAKER_01 52:42

That's amazing, wonderful, thank you. Yeah, and also the little nuance against there, the amount that Joseph was used by God is a great example for us to look at. He was also told to prepare for the famine, wasn't he? So you know that that element was also there, the wisdom of that. And um, you know, we are in a time of spiritual and famine, and also things physically are getting difficult for people in these days, and uh it's just something to remember as we approach this topic. I I really, really thank you, Joseph. It was a wonderful conversation, and I've learned a lot from that, and I hope that the listeners also benefited from some of the things that were discussed as well. So really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 53:28

Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_01 53:29

Thank you. You're very welcome. Thank you. And those listening to the Rise Radio Podcast today, please do give us a rating or a share on the podcast platforms if you're on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube. Please, if you do feel anyone would benefit from these shows, please share it with others as we seek to put this content out there and to try and speak into this culture today and the times that we're in. Thank you very much.