“Why You Should AVOID Following This Trend...” - Doreen Virtue, Ex-New Age Author

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Today's topic is an important one. Mainly due to the increase in the popularity of it in our culture and generation. In fact, a listener of this show on YouTube, they asked me to cover this in an episode due to their own concerns about how rampant it's become online, particularly in the last few years. And that subject is numerology, which is ascribing mystical meaning and personal powers to certain numbers and the occult practices that come with it. So I thought for this conversation I'd invite Doreen Virtue with us today, who before she became a Christian wrote books on angel numbers, which she has since completely renounced. So, Doreen, thanks for joining us today. And could you explain, first of all, what is numerology and what did you believe about it back when you were part of the New Age movement?

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Well, thank you, David, for having me on this program to talk about this important topic. And you're right, before I was saved, I was highly involved with numerology, which bottom line is divination. And divination is trying to get some sort of peek into the future to try to avoid something or control something. And of course, it is completely condemned in the old and in the new testament, particularly Deuteronomy 18. And we can see the divination and all the other forms of it, like sorcery, conjuring, is condemned in the New Testament as well. So in the New Age, I believed and unfortunately popularized this idea that God spoke to us through his angels, which angels are messengers, but not in the way the New Age credits them. In the New Age, the belief was that the angels would talk to us through repeating number sequences that we would see on license plates, phone numbers, receipts, even repeating numbers you might get in your head, and that it was all messages. And unfortunately, I went into new age meditations that led to trans channeling, trying to get number meanings of these different numbers. And I feel like Dr. Frankenstein, to be honest, because uh, as you mentioned, I have renounced all forms of divination, including my old work, including numerology. But it's I coined that phrase, angel numbers, back in the 1990s, and it continues. Katy Perry had an album that she said was dedicated to her angel number. She named the album after that. You see, Sean Foyt talking about 222 all the time, that that's some sort of divine revelation. I mean, you can see people just clinging to trying to get meanings out of numbers, and including professing Christians who tell me they have life verses in the Bible based on their birth date. And so we have to recall that the numbers in the Bible, the the chapters and verse numbers, that is, were added later. They're not divinely inspired. They were added up until the 1500s. So you can't say that, well, my birthday is April 4th. So therefore, Matthew 4, 4 is my life verse. I mean, that's the temptation in the wilderness where the devil's talking with Jesus. So we have to be careful, first of all. Secondly, we see people want to take the numbers that are in the Bible and try to create meaning that the Bible never talks about. And I'm concerned about this because there's even some professing Christians that are highly respected who've written books on this that seem to say they can extract the meaning of 3, 3, 3. Why is there so many threes in the Bible? Why are there so many 12s and 40s and number seven in the Bible? And God would have told us the meaning if He wanted us to know that. And He particularly would not have given us these numbers for us to use for personal private revelation or divination. I mean, we can summarize that 40 means a long time in the Bible, but we can't say, oh, therefore, if I see 40, it means it'll be a long time before I get that house or, you know, get a job, like a lot of people are prone to do.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

Yeah, and that's something we'd would be good to cover later on in this interview, kind of the difference between maybe reading in meaning through this Gnostic numerology as opposed to when God's word speaks out to us in specific ways about this topic. So we'll go there soon. But uh, could you just give us an example? We see a lot of numbers that people see as special, quote unquote, for example, 1111. What's the reason that that's seen as something significant? I understand in the New Age they believe in kind of spiritual portals and gateways and things.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

Yeah, that's exactly what 111 was supposed to be. The geometric shape of a one was considered to be symbolic of a gate opening. And so when you see ones, it means that you get your wish. It reminds me of the pagan practice of birthday candles, also, which are like ones standing up. So we were always elated when we saw some of these numbers. Like, as you mentioned, one, it was supposed to be this gateway opening for a portal in the universe to deliver your heart's desires to you. I mean, that's just completely unbiblical on all levels. Or when we saw eights, because eights are like a Mobius twist, you know, infinity, we thought that eight meant abundance, that you're going to get money coming to you if you see eights. And the more eights, the better. In fact, I knew a new age event producer who purposely went out and got a custom license plate that had all eights. And it was to attract money, he said.

SPEAKER_00 6:49

So, do you have a concern that this is actually now going more just from niche new age circles to the wider public? Because you see a lot of people talking about these concepts, at least in some way, that if they wake up at a certain time, it's a bad omen if they wake up at 3:33 in the morning, or or people just seeing this around about, like you said, on license plates and things like that.

SPEAKER_01 7:13

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I am concerned. One of the things that I unfortunately popularized with the book I wrote, Angel Numbers, and then I had an app where you could type in number sequences and it would give you a fortune, you know, a divination, what it meant, supposedly, was 444. And that's really popular still on social media, particularly TikTok influencers. They actually sell 444 charm necklaces. And so this goes back to a man who's past since named Nick Bunick, who wrote a book in the 90s. And I toured with him because we had the same kind of circuit that we were on. And his premise, just in a nutshell, was that he was this Jewish businessman from Lake Oswego, Oregon. He was running for public office. He was very, very, you know, esteemed in his and wealthy in his community. And he started to have these visions, and the doctors didn't know what was going on. So they sent him to a hypnotherapist who did what's called, and this is popular in the new age, past life regressions. And in the past life regression, he saw images of the Middle East. He saw oasis water, he saw palm trees, and he kept getting more and more details. And the bottom line was he and his past life regressionist decided that he was the reincarnation of Apostle Paul, that he was one of seven Apostle Pauls that had come to earth. I mean, this is what they believe in the New Age. They have a lot of the Christian speech, a lot of the Christian Bible stories, but it's all twisted. And so he believed that the number 444 was significant as the Trinity plus the angels. He believed that the angels were on par with the three persons of the Holy Trinity. So he's the one that popularized 444. And I kind of picked up on that and started to talk about it also, unfortunately. And now you see it, as I said, on TikTok all over the place, not knowing that this is a counterfeit trinity. It's it's not a trinity, it's the four, you know, but it's just blasphemy for our Holy Trinity, who is the three persons of God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, co-equal and co-eternal. And to turn it into this personal divination 444 number is absolutely sickening.

SPEAKER_00 9:46

Well, it's interesting you say that about some similarities with Christian type language, because I believe that it's prevalent in the NAR and also because I've been to some events where they kind of use this Kabbalistic numerology in NAR service. But also, I think Alice Bailey and some of those others perhaps were apostate Christians, so to speak. I think they used to be involved in Christianity, and there's there's another one that's seen as a New Age guru, I forget his name, but I believe he was also involved in churches, and then he kind of left, and so they mixed some of that language with esoteric stuff.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

Yeah, yeah, it was all over the New Age circuit. I mean, I was I was touring for 26 years with the very famous New Age teachers, and we would have book signings after our talks, and there'd be lines of women, mostly women at my talks, and they most of them had either a cross necklace or a crucifix necklace, if they were Roman Catholic. And they told me they were Christians, they came to me because I talked about angels, but because we were biblically illiterate, we didn't realize that these were false counterfeit angels, they were demons and not God's true messengers. When I finally read the Bible, I was floored at how wrong I had been about angels. And for anyone listening who had been influenced by my work back then, I deeply apologize and of course have repented to God for it.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

So do you think that some of this is actually like a direct rebellion against God that some people who have been involved have been exposed to maybe Christian parents, maybe Christianity growing up, and they've directly turned against it, and therefore they've become like the Gnostics did, where they twisted scripture to fit these false beliefs.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

Absolutely. Yeah. The women at my book signings that I would talk to every time I would go out on the road, they all told me that they had left the church, whether it was Protestant or Roman Catholic, because they said they were having paranormal situations, such as foreknowledge of the bad events happening or just paranormal experiences. And they said the church either wouldn't acknowledge that or would downplay it. And they needed acknowledgement. So they went to New Age workshops where they were embraced for these paranormal experiences and told that they were gifted psychics. So a lot of them retained their biblical language. I did, because I, you know, I was born and raised in a church, a false church, Christian science. And so we would talk like we were Christians. We would even quote the Bible, but we were, like you said, rebelling against the true gospel because we didn't believe it. We we were taught in New Thought and New Age that Jesus didn't actually die in the crucifix, that he was, you know, he he died a natural death and this ended and was now helping us alongside all the other ascended masters, like Krishna and Buddha. I mean, it was just, I have a hard time even explaining what the New Age believes about Jesus because it's so blasphemous and so dangerous. But it's their idea, like you said, Gnosticism, this belief that you can have secret hidden wisdom, which harkens back to Genesis 3, doesn't it? And this belief that Jesus was all teddy bear, that there was no part of him that ever confronted anybody, which contradicts everything that the Bible says.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

And do you think it can be even more dangerous when it is off-white, where it's not clearly obvious, it's just using some of the language to twist it into a false belief system because it's all the more convincing, isn't it, when it's so close to the truth?

SPEAKER_01 13:47

It is. It's part of ecumenism and the one-world religion. The enemy's using it because it sounds like what you want. You you know, people want to know, want to hear that Jesus approves of everything they do, that Jesus has this unconditional love and and you you're a great person, keep going, follow your heart, follow your dreams. They want to believe that so desperately, but it's not true.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

So when you talk about synchronicities, synchronicities, is that how you say it? I'm not sure, which I know is a big topic in that movement. Do you think that when people keep seeing the same numbers in different places, do you think that's more a matter of it being coincidences that their attention is being drawn to it because they've already pre-thinking, pre-adding meaning to it? Or do you think it's actually a demonic spiritual thing?

SPEAKER_01 14:42

I think it's both, actually. In the professing Christian circles, they call these signs God winks, as if God's winking to you. You see it a lot with people and their heart-shaped stones that they find when they're on walks. And I have to admit that I found one recently while on a walk, and it was comforting to see. And for a half of a second, I went there too. Oh, God is sending me this heart-shaped rock. But then I had to just repent and say, no, no, no, this is not Gideon and the fleece at all. This is me wanting this to be a comforting sign. And I mean, heart-shaped rocks are beautiful. There's nothing wrong with that. God did make, he made the rock, his sovereign nature eroded it to make it look like a heart. I mean, so you could say that, but it's not a personal private revelation. It's not divination any more than these number sequences are.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

And when it comes to the danger, because this does actually get quite dangerous, doesn't it? When someone really goes down this rabbit hole and starts to see it everywhere. I know that there was a movie starring Jim Kerry called The Number 23, and I think that was about this guy who just gets obsessed with the number 23 and thinks he's seen it everywhere, and he literally has a mental breakdown because he just sees it everywhere, and it begins to become like this curse on him. So I just wondered because I know when about 11 or 12 years ago I was deceived by Gnosticism, I'd come out of Christianity, and of course, it this was a new idea presented to me, and I know that it wasn't freedom because in the end I began to think that certain numbers were actually bad luck or bad things. So I would avoid sitting on a certain number seat in the airplane in the end, because I was like, oh no, I've got to avoid that, and it can really play on your mind.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

It can, and it's one of the reasons why hotels don't have a 13th floor. So it's not just us, it's prevalent in our society. And even in the new age, I was that way because of my limited Bible knowledge. I would avoid the number six because of Revelation 13. So it's people who are being superstitious and thinking that God's speaking to us through these numbers when God speaks to us through his word. The Holy Spirit does convict us in our heart when we're about to sin or when we did sin. I mean, there's definitely that communication through the Holy Spirit indwelling us. But when we want a message from God, we have to compare everything to scripture. We can't go off the rails, which what I did in the new age. I was making decisions based on angel numbers. So if I wanted to say move or make a change, big change in my life, I would consult what numbers I was seeing in license plates. And I was using it to validate what I really wanted to do, what my heart's desire was, and attributing it to God and God's angels, which we can't do, especially if it's something that violates what God has commanded us. I mean, I've met women who divorced based on divination, when God says in his word clearly in Micah that he hates divorce and we can see the destruction of it. So we can't use divination to make life decisions like this. And I feel terrible that I had made this book, Angel Numbers. And if anyone has it, please burn it. And then when I professed Christ in 2017 and my publisher fired me because they said I was offending the witches who were their customers, they took another author and actually from the UK, who anyway, long story about him, and they put his name on my book about angel numbers, and he popularizes them. So divination and new age are big money for publishers and event producers. And so this deception will continue, just like we saw in Acts 16. The men who had the slave girl who would give psychic readings for them, they were basically her managers making money. And they were furious at Paul when he was part of casting out the serpent spirit out of her and she lost her psychic abilities. So there are people. My point is they will exploit this false teaching about numerology. And we as professing Christians, we've got to be Bereans, Acts 17, 11. We've got to compare everything to scripture. If anyone's listening and they and it becomes like an addiction to divination, they give over their ability to turn to God for wisdom, to God's word for wisdom. They instead turn it over to consulting divination. If anyone's listening is doing this, we can't quit these practices in our own strength. We can't use willpower to turn away from these sinful temptations. We've got to turn to God for his strength and plead to him to purify our motives, our intentions, our heart, our mind, like Psalm 139 is so beautiful. That prayer about if there's anything in me, Lord, that's offending you, please, please purify my heart. And that's what I had to do with numerology. I remember when I was first saved, it was so hard for me to not immediately think of what does this mean when I would see a repeating number sequence. And I would be on my knees pleading to God, please break this attachment that I have to divination, Lord. Please help me to trust you, to know you, to not lean on my own understanding through divination of numerology. And he did, he broke that chain in me. And so when I see repeating numbers now, it's neutral. Praise God. And I've talked to other people who've come out of NAR and New Age deception with numerology. My absolute advice for you is to turn to God for strength and purification.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

Right. And that's interesting you said that because I was going to bring up that it is really, it begins to replace our trust in God, because in the end you become you start to trust in the patterns and the numbers, and that replaces faith in God and reliance on Him. And I remember for me as well, like I said before, when I started to fall into that trap, it really did play on my own OCD as well, which is another side of it, that obviously it doesn't help mental health conditions, does it? Because you can become entangled and obsessed, particularly with that. And it just reminded me of the verse in Galatians 5:1 that says, Stand fast, therefore, in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with a yoke of bondage.

SPEAKER_01 21:51

Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:53

Yoke of bondage.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

It is. And as you mentioned, there's a mental health entangled into this because so many of the women I met during my 26 years in the New Age were trauma survivors. I mean, severe abuse, tragic, traumatic losses. And the new age was a coping mechanism for them, not a good coping mechanism, but they were seeking peace. And the New Age offers this counterfeit to peace. And one of the ways it's it says you can have peace is by predicting the future so you can control it, so that you can avoid further pain, further trauma, and so that you can attract abundance and love and fame and fortune to yourself. The New Age just dangles that before these things. Poor traumatized people. And numerology seems to be something that is easily accessible and understandable to people. It's similar to astrology or other divination systems, where it seems like this easy way, you know, why do I keep seeing 333 and license plates and everywhere I look? Well, part of that is the human brain. And this is my going back to my psychology days. If you see things over and over again, then you start to notice them. And it's this, it's called selective attention. And the easiest analogy I can give is if you recently make a new friend that you're very much wanting to spend time with. And that new friend, let's say, drives a green Toyota Corolla. And so now all of a sudden, every time you see a green Toyota or a green car on the road, you're looking, is that my friend? Is that my friend? Where before you didn't even notice green cars much. And so that's selective attention. And the same thing where if you at a casino and you pull the slot machine and you get payout, then you're going to become hooked on trying to pull the lever again. And so with the numbers, it's like pulling the lever of getting a payout. So, because the numbers, they stroke your ego. They tell you how wonderful you are. They tell you that you're a Gnostic. You have this insight into secret, hidden wisdom, knowledge that nobody else has. Wink wink. You're you're special. And for someone who's traumatized and feels really bad about themselves, this can be exactly what they think they need, but of course it's not. Jesus Christ, who came to earth fully God and fully man, who was the only one to live a sinless life, and the only one, therefore, qualified to take the wrath on the cross for the sins that we've all committed. And of course, he died on the cross physically. He was buried for three days in the rich man's tomb, as prophesied. And then he was risen bodily from the grave. Hallelujah. He conquered sin and death on our behalf. People touched him, talked with him, ate with him. They saw him. He really physically died. He really physically rose from the dead. His resurrection proves that Christianity is true. It proves that we all need Jesus as our Lord and Savior. And of course, he ascended to the right hand of our Father God and He will return to judge everyone. And if you are cloaked in Jesus' righteousness, you will get to live with Jesus for eternity in the new heaven and the new earth, where there's no more tears, no more sin, no more sorrow. But if you're not cloaked in Jesus, you're going to be judged for your sins. And your outcome for eternity is going to be horrendous. And I weep about this because these are highly sensitive people in the new age and they've gone to the new age because they are so sensitive. And to think of these highly sensitive, traumatized people being in hell because they've rejected the gospel is truly heartbreaking. And I pray that people who are using numerology to get information will absolutely turn to God to close that book, repent for that sin, and put your whole focus on Jesus on the cross, your whole focus on reading God's word every single day, praying as much as you can throughout each day, and trusting in the Lord instead of what He's created.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

And it's such a cheap counterfeit, isn't it, to go from that authentic, rich spiritual truth from the Bible to just what number 13?

unknown 26:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 26:43

There's no replacement there, is it? I mean, with interpreting omens and telling fortunes and doing divination, it says in the book of Leviticus that you shall not interpret omens or tell fortunes. Could you just define to us exactly what divination and interpreting omens means?

SPEAKER_01 27:05

Yeah, divination, the word it's divining. You can think of people with their divining rods trying to find water. It's trying to dig for hidden information. I mean, it's really what the serpent offered to Eve in the garden if she would disobey God. And it is the opposite of what we're exhorted to do in Proverbs 3, verses 5 through 6. We are exhorted, commanded to trust in the Lord with all of our heart and not to lean on our own understanding. But when we use divination, it's literally trying to dig what the truth is, instead of opening God's word, the scroll is open. There's no hidden secrets for us to try to dig, like the Gnostics taught, like New Age taught, like NAR teaches. It's really all there in the Bible. And the Holy Spirit, the author of the Bible, will illuminate to you what that what those passages mean and will convict you and guide you. I mean, the Bible is God breathed. It's all we need, it's sufficient. We do not need to turn to trying to get these systems that are being pushed by influencers and new age teachers and NAR, so-called prophets. Turn away from them. The numbers, you know, you might say, well, you know, God created this world mathematically precise, and he did, but he never said that you're to use my creation for the wisdom. He said we can turn to him for wisdom. And that means turning to his word, the Bible.

SPEAKER_00 28:43

Right. And that and that could uh tie into elevating the creation above the creator, couldn't it? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

Romans 125, exactly, where people served and worshiped the creation instead of the creator. And then this idea of omens, signs and omens is condemned. We see it clearly in Deuteronomy 18, where it talks about God talks about that. That's what the Canaanites, the pagans, were doing, that they were interpreting signs and omens. And in the new age, I was doing that. I had an actual book, which I hope people don't have called Signs from Above, that I tragically co-wrote with my son, who we both, you know, have renounced that book. Praise God. But we used to believe that God spoke to us through, as I said, numbers, all kinds of patterns. Like we literally thought everything that we saw, heard, and thought was a sign from God. As you mentioned, mental health, it made us obsessed with always noticing, okay, this means this, this means that. And sometimes professing Christians want to argue that, well, look at Gideon with the fleece. Isn't that an omen? Isn't that him going to God and asking for a sign? And God gave him a sign. Well, you know, we don't know exactly why that happened, but we do know for sure that Gideon didn't have the full canon of scripture that we do now. So perhaps God allowed him for that season to ask for a sign, but it's not, it never says that we are to do the same. And we do not see any instructions to ask for signs in the letters, in the epistles to the church in the New Testament.

SPEAKER_00 30:25

So how do we differentiate between, for example, when Jesus says, These are the signs of the times, you know, you hypocrites, you can't discern the signs of the times. So there's obviously an element there that is legitimate, but how do we determine between that and false or lying signs and wonders?

SPEAKER_01 30:45

That's one of the most important questions. And so we put it into context when Jesus is talking about the tree, and you can tell that summer's coming and that this is giving us awareness that Jesus is coming back. We can put that into context, for instance, with his parable of the ten virgins, that we are to keep the oil in our lamp. All of his parables talk about being prepared for his return. And so I take it more in that way rather than us having a newspaper in one hand and the Bible in the other hand, saying, okay, this means he's coming back on August 13th. We don't do that.

SPEAKER_00 31:21

He speaks about very obvious signs, doesn't he? Like you will see an increase in war, an increase in apostasy, an increase in the worlds becoming more tumultuous. But that's really obvious, isn't it? It's not like um I need to see a bird fly through my window that's a certain color or yes, good point.

SPEAKER_01 31:41

Yeah. Speaking of that, that was something I was really involved in was mediumship and necromancy and the belief that our loved ones in heaven would send us birds or butterflies or a song on the radio. And that's divination. We are to have no communication with the dead. We can, you know, before people die is the time to share the gospel and pray for them, not after they're dead. And we do hope that they were like the thief on the cross if they had been unbelievers, that they are in heaven and will see them again. But ultimately, we we've got to trust in the Lord with all of our heart and his sovereignty. The Bible says God made hell for the devil and his fallen angels. And anyone who follows the devil or the demons, that's where they're gonna go. They're gonna go into the devil's lair. And the devil is constantly, he's always marketing to get more souls to follow him. And he will use every trick in the book to counterfeit God's blessings. Particularly, I think his biggest counterfeit is to promise peace when he can't. You cannot have peace apart from the real Jesus Christ, from repenting and believing the gospel and having the indwelling Holy Spirit. It's impossible to have peace through new age meditations, new age divination. We all thought we could achieve enlightenment. You know, we're I'm thinking of Helena Blavatsky and the theosophical society that she started, that we would have peace finally if we just learned enough, if we had enough truth and got rid of duality thinking that we were separate from God or separate from each other. And it's the opposite of the biblical truth, you know. So it's just heartbreaking when people do not read the Bible and do not pray for the Holy Spirit to illuminate the Bible to them as they're reading it. We can get off track so easily.

SPEAKER_00 33:38

So do you think the main difference is that the Gnostic side they teach this idea that you can become God through Gnosis and only you personally can see these hidden signs that are directly to you, for example. Whereas, you know, the real legitimate side of seeing the times we're in, it's something that we can all observe. We can all see very clearly that the world is getting worse in certain ways that the Bible warned about, and that is something that we can all point to as evidence that the Bible spoke the truth of the times we're in. So maybe the that's the difference, do you think, in terms of the the oh, absolutely, David.

SPEAKER_01 34:25

Yeah, absolutely. Is that it seems like I was born in 1958, so I've seen a lot in this world, and I'm shocked every day by the news, just how how bad it is. And to me, it points to urgency to share the gospel while there's still time.

SPEAKER_00 34:44

Yeah, for sure. And and we can see so many of the warnings the Bible gave us about these times, they're just I mean, it's all around us. It's incredible to to be alive in this period, and just as you say, it's so urgent now to get the gospel out because we can see that time is short. So there's a really nuanced question I want to ask you, and this is really important as well, because I know that some people listening to this will be helped by asking the question. We've talked about all these things, and we know that in this world that there are performances, there are music videos, there are many things in this culture that are laced with dangerous spiritual deception. Luciferian New Age counterfeits that are gradually drawing the people that don't seem to realize how dangerous this spiritual element is towards these Luciferian New Age beliefs. But there's also a number of people, myself as well, I've come from this background. As I say, like 12 years ago, I unfortunately set out with some good intentions to try and point this out, but I got lost in the process and began to be deceived by Gnostic beliefs myself, which I had to repent for. When it comes to people you see online that are maybe with good intentions wanting to expose certain things and draw attention to the deception, but in the process they actually and we see it a lot, they begin to use numerology themselves and say, Well, I'm not part of the numerology, I'm just trying to expose it. But then they start to see the a news story that says the man who did some crime in the news, he was age 33, and therefore that is some kind of message that is saying that this event was fake. Do you understand what I'm saying? What do you think the danger is in that type of mentality?

SPEAKER_01 36:55

Yes, absolutely. I remember that story, by the way, and it really goes back to the warnings in the Bible to be sober-minded and alert because our adversary, the devil, is prowling around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. Anyone who thinks that they're above being deceived by Satan is making themselves vulnerable and giving him a foothold. So, you know, we don't want to go around being panicking about demons all the time. That's not what we're here for. We the fruit of the spirit is joy and peace. And we have assurance and that God is sovereign over everything, including the devil. But we have to be aware. And you're right, those who are in the discernment ministries, they have to be aware and sober-minded because while you're doing those discernment ministry exposures, you've got to watch those videos of the false teachings. And so the devil could use that to say, well, here's an exception. You're strong, you're above all this, you're the exception, and boom, that person is deceived. You see that. I've seen that where people want to have a little bit of leaven and excuse it.

SPEAKER_00 38:08

Thank you very much. I appreciate you coming on, Doreen. And I'd love to know if you've got any resources on the warnings about angel numbers and divination that people could look into.

SPEAKER_01 38:19

I do. First of all, just kind of a disclaimer is that I wrote books for 26 years in the New Age. And then before that, I wrote New Thought books before I segued from New Thought to New Age in the 90s. And I they're not self-published, so I can't get them off of Amazon or other places. And my ex-publisher has told me that there are counterfeit bootlegger printers printing their whole catalog, including my old work and selling them online. So please know if people see my old work for sale, it's not my doing. And if anyone knows a way to get them off of the market, please let me know because I can't seem to make a much of a dent. My US publisher has stopped publishing my old work, praise God. And then I can't control people selling used copies of my old work. But I have made some new free ebooks on Kindle Unlimited on Amazon. And one of them is called The Biblical Truth About Angel Numbers. Just a little book, but it's a good resource. Free of charge, just go to Biblical Truth About Angel Numbers on Kindle on Amazon, and you can download it and read it for free. And I made it as a resource, mostly for Christians who have loved ones involved with this, or biblical counselors or apologists who need resources from because I wrote that book and coined that phrase, angel numbers, and it's so popular. It was the least I could do was make this free book.

SPEAKER_00 39:48

Okay, Doreen, thank you for covering this for us. I really appreciate you coming on, and I wish you all the best. And just thank you for reaching out to people with the gospel. It's so important in these times and the dangers of this encroaching spiritual deception.

SPEAKER_01 40:04

Thank you. God bless you and everyone who's listening to your podcast, David.

SPEAKER_00 40:09

Thanks, Dorian.