Jesus & Politics with Bunni Pounds at the NRB in Nashville

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Hello everyone, this is Stephen Strang and welcome to this very special edition of the

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Strang Report podcast.

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Well, today I'm in Nashville, Tennessee and with the, because of modern technology, we're

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able to use an iPhone and to record this at the National Religious Broadcasters Convention,

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which happens every year about this time of year.

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It's sort of where everybody who's in broadcasting or print or media of any kind come together.

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And today I'm with our author, Bunny Pounds, whose book, Jesus and Politics Just Came

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Out.

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I'm a little excited.

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And I've been wanting to do a podcast with her and normally we're live every Tuesday

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and Thursday.

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Today is Tuesday, February 20th.

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So I said, why don't we do this?

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We got a little booth.

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It's not a very fancy setting, but here we are at NRB.

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There's all kinds of interviews, TV interviews, podcast interviews going on.

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You probably hear a little bit in the background.

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And what I want to do is talk about this book because it just came out.

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And so Bunny Pounds and I, first of all, start by asking you about some of the media you

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were telling me earlier about being on 700 Club and meeting with Michelle Bachman.

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So tell me the response that you're getting to this book.

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It's been amazing, Steve.

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And I just want to say thank you to Charisma for believing in me as an author in our story.

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But yeah, I mean, I was on the Steve Dacis show.

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I was on 700 Club on with Dr. Jim Garlow last week on World Prayer Network, on with Dr.

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Michael Brown for an hour and just doing tons of media here at NRB.

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And it's just been awesome to see people really love, you know, really gravitate towards

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wanting to see a book that inspires Christians to get involved with government and politics,

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but to do it with the nature of Christ, with the spirit of Christ behind us, that we need

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to get involved and we need to get involved in the right way.

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Well, that's important, especially on this election year.

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And we'll talk about that in a minute.

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But I've published a lot of books.

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We're not sure how many.

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I think about 2000.

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And rarely have we had an author as enthusiastic as you.

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I'll take that as a great trophy.

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It is a compliment.

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You know, you are just like a one woman marketing machine because you believe in this.

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So just tell a lot of my viewers would not even though we've written about you, I've

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done a podcast book once before with you.

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A lot of people don't know your story, which you do tell in here.

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Jesus in politics.

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So bring us up to date on what your story is and what motivated you to write the book.

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Yeah, well, I was a homeschooling mom that got involved 20 years ago.

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I went down to a state convention in my state in Texas and I testified in front of a platform

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committee on a school choice issue on homeschooling issue.

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And I got hooked that man, I could make a difference.

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I could, you know, testify and change a platform plank in a party platform.

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That was like unbelievable to me.

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And I thought, well, we as Americans have so much power that we don't use.

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And that led me into going back to Dallas Baptist University, finishing in my degree

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in political science at night while homeschooling my kids.

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And then I landed a job with a U.S. member of Congress, Jeb Hensreling, worked for a

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congressman Hensreling for 10 years as he went on to become conference chairman in the

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house, financial services chairman in the house.

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And then I started my own consulting firm helping solid Christian conservatives run

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for office from county, state and federal level became one of the largest consulting

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firms in Texas by the grace of God.

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And then I affectionately say I blew up my life running for Congress in 2018 and ran

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a million dollar campaign and, you know, barely lost, but, you know, God had other plans,

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Steve.

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And so the kind of the vision behind this book is to take my little individual story,

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which is just one of many stories of Americans out there that are actively pursuing government

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and politics with Jesus, but to say everybody can make a difference.

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And now I lead a ministry called Christians Engage, helping every Christian in America

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pray, vote and engage regularly.

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Why do you think so many Christians who would be sincere church going, you know, Bible

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reading Christians, why do you think they're so hesitant to get involved?

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Well, I think we still have some sort of division in our minds, whether we admit it or not,

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that some things are secular and some things are sacred.

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You know, I grew up in a very charismatic Bible college at Christ for the Nations, you

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know, the Lindsay family.

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And back in the early nineties, we didn't have really anybody in the pulpit there that

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was not in full time ministry that was not a missionary, evangelist, pastor, etc.

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And so there was not really a grid when I was growing up of, man, God can call you into

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these places of influence.

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Thankfully, we now have an understanding that God's calling Christian leaders into education,

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media, politics, government, business, and then we can make a difference.

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But frankly, we hear a lot of pastors go, take Jesus to your boardroom, you know, to

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the businessmen or take Jesus to your classroom as a public educator.

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But very rarely do you hear a pastor go, take Jesus into the halls of Congress, take Jesus

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into your state legislature.

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But that's exactly what we should be doing.

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We should be taking Jesus wherever we go.

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And most importantly, in our government, that government can ultimately shut us down.

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That can control our life.

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Thank God we don't live in Korea.

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We don't live in Venezuela or Cuba.

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We live in America.

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So we take things for granted and we become apathetic, instead of realizing that we should

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be engaging.

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Yes, that's changing.

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In fact, I met a man here at NRB, met him briefly, somebody I'd never known before.

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He's here pushing his book, telling his story that he was in the CIA for, I think he said,

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a dozen years.

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Then he was a whistleblower and got totally shut out, shut down, wrote a book about it.

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And he was telling me that this has happened to a lot of people.

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Now, I'm under the impression that there are laws to protect whistleblowers because we

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need whistleblowers.

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But you know, since Roe v. Wade, the Justice Department, has actually targeted pro-life

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people with something called FACE, which was a law passed in the 90s, that they are now,

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or they'll use the RICO laws to come up with some way.

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In fact, one of the things that's very, very concerning to me about President Trump and

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all these lawsuits and stuff is if the system can bring down a former president of the United

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States, what can they do to the rest of us?

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It's true.

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We're all vulnerable.

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Yep.

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We have to get on somebody's bad side.

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And more and more and more, if you stand for any kind of conservative, traditional values,

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you're on the bad side of certain people who want to drum that out of society altogether.

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So really, in a way, when you stand up, as you have done in so many ways and are going

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to continue to do, it's almost like you're putting a big target on your back.

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Have you experienced that or do you fear that at all?

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Well, I tell a story in the book.

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We were in the ministry in 2021 that was denied our tax exempt status by the IRS.

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You can't have more of a bullseye on your back than getting denied your tax exempt

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status.

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And so they said in writing, the Internal Revenue Service, here we were just teaching

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Christians from a nonpartisan Christian ministry perspective about prayer, voting, and engagement,

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not endorsing candidates or political parties.

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And they said, Bible teachings are inherently Republican.

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Bible teachings are typically affiliated with a Republican Party and candidates, quote,

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ending quote.

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And then they went on to say, because you're teaching on the sanctity of human life, biblical

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justice, debt, taxation, Israel, these things are inherently Republican.

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Therefore, you're not nonpartisan.

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And so, you know, number one, the IRS was so what do you have to do?

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If you've wop philosophies worked in, so you're even.

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Yeah, it doesn't make sense.

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Just move over to their side.

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And then they would think that that is subjective.

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Well, and you would have thought that every Democrat in the country would have railed their

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hands and go, the Bible's not Republican.

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How dare you say that?

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But you know, what happened was that I just walked that letter over to my friend Kelly

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Shackifer at First Liberty Institute.

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I said, Hey, have you guys ever taken a tax exempt status denial?

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And they're like, no, but we want this one.

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They're literally saying the Bible is Republican.

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So we filed a beautiful appeal with the help at First Liberty Institute.

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They did it pro bono for us.

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We were a very small ministry at the time.

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But the beauty of that was we went on Fox News three times.

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We were the top story of epoch times, Breitbart, all of that.

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And thousands of people, Steve, started waking up.

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The very thing that God called me to do was to find the awakening church and plug them

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into habits of prayer, voting and engagement for the sake of America.

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Well, thousands of people started going on our website, taking our pledge to pray, vote,

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engage.

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And I had this one man, he emails me and he goes, I'm writing an angry letter to the IRS

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right now.

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And I was like, well, please do that in the spirit of Christ, you know, kind of tongue

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and cheek.

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But what happened was 16 members of Congress wrote a letter to the IRS commissioner led

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by Chip Roy from Texas.

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And then Senator Mike Lee and Senator Ted Cruz wrote a letter on the Senate side.

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And people were calling their offices going, how dare we shut down a Christian ministry?

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And that would have affected every Christian ministry in church in America if that had

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stood.

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Well, if they could just arbitrarily say, if you believe this as Republican, I mean,

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why right do they have to say it?

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Well, but it's a mindset that a lot of those people have.

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Now I want to give a disclaimer.

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I've been both a Democrat and a Republican.

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I'm not a big fan of either.

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But with the way that the issues have come down recently, the Republicans will at least

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give lip service.

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But you know, I think that both parties are part of the deep state, which is part of the

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problem.

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Both parties have a significant problem.

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What we have to look at as believers is what is in the party platforms, what are they saying

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they believe, what are the individuals in that party that works from the precinct level

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to the Senate level to the state level to the national level, saying that their values

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are and how can they hold those elected officials accountable to it?

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You know, it's a it's a hard process, but it's really we, the people have to speak,

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not the elites.

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You know what you said about your experience with the IRS makes me think of that scripture

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that says talks about woe to he who calls good, bad, evil and evil, good.

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You know, they were calling good evil.

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And the thing is that unless we stand up, they will get away with it and then do it

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again and again.

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And then it becomes the norm and we almost lose our right to say anything about it.

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And so, so well, and that's in chapter eight of the book.

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So everybody read the IRS story in chapter eight.

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So kind of walk through the book to peak people's interest because I want people to, you know,

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we don't publish this just to do it.

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We do it to get resources in people's hands where they can read it, take action, share

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it with others and so forth.

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So walk us through the book and tell us what we'll learn when we read Jesus in politics.

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This is not a boring book, Steve.

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Now we've all read the political books.

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There's like, oh, gosh, this is hard reading.

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This is not that.

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So this is fun stories.

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It really is an intimacy with Jesus book disguises a political book a little bit.

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I say that tongue-in-cheek because I want people to walk with Jesus.

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I want them to understand that they can make an influence and impact in their world.

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So I share like stories about being willing to go to Washington, DC, my race for Congress,

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how I was the only person in the country in the 2018 primary endorsed by Vice President

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Mike Pence, and that was because we had developed a relationship and a friendship and I prayed

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for him and we'd shared our testimony to each other and a whole bunch of things that happened

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before that point.

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I share stories of ministering to Congressman Lee Zeldin from New York, one of my clients,

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Congressman Sean Duffy.

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I share a dream I had about a member of Congress that wasn't from my party, Beto O'Rourke,

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and how three months later I'm standing in front of Congressman Beto O'Rourke in the

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middle of a gubernatorial race where he was running against our governor, Gary Gabbett,

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where I got to deliver the word of the Lord to him that I had seen in that dream three

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months before, which was really crazy.

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Walking with friends of mine that have had moral failures in Congress, walking with friends

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of mine that have had terminal cancer diagnosis as a member of Congress and praying over them,

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greeting God for their healing, seeing them go to Congress, even when the doctor said

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that they were going to die, Congressman Ron Wright and others.

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So you're going to hear a lot of names in the book that you'll recognize, hopefully,

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but it's not just about the who's who and the political movements.

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It's about, man, I'm just a girl that loves Jesus, Steve, and somehow if God can use me,

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just as a staffer, as a consultant in this space, man, he can use every single one of

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us.

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And that, I hope, is what people take away from the book, that God wants to use them.

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And what kind of response are you getting?

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The book's been out now, what, two or three weeks?

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And you've been doing a lot of media, good media, as you refer to, but what are some

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anecdotes of the people that have told you?

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Well, the few people that have already read the book have said that they are just really

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inspired for their own life to go deeper in God, number one, to not just be complacent,

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not be apathetic, but to really push forward in what God's called them to do.

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I hope that people identify, even as they read some burdens that God's put in their

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heart, you know, sometimes we just look at the news and we just want to yell at the news

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and we see the injustices, Steve, we see what's happening.

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We see what's happening on our border.

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We see what's happening with drug overdoses in our communities, with still dealing with

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the unborn and the sanctity of human life, justice issues, different things.

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But sometimes we don't identify our part we can play in that.

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So I hope that people, as they read the book, will just start seeing themselves and the

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burdens that they're carrying and how they can step out and be obedient to the Lord and

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that.

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And God can use people.

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How has all of the things you've been talking about affected your family?

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Well, running for Congress was really, really difficult for my family.

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You haven't lived until you've had a million dollars spent against you.

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It was really difficult for my husband.

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I actually dedicated this book to my husband, Tim.

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We've been married 28 years and we have two sons and two daughter-in-laws and two grandbabies

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now.

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I wanted him to be honored because nobody understands the effects that it takes on you and your

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family and your loved ones when you are brutally attacked.

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I say, in the very beginning of the book, I don't know what Muslims that have converted

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to Jesus feel like when they have to abandon their families or they're attempting to be

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martyred for Christ.

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I do know a little bit more about suffering and persecution than the modern, normal American,

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right, just going through political campaigns.

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So I hope that people understand that the families of the candidates, the families of

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the elected officials all go through deep things and they need to be honored.

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Whether you agree with a person or not, you need to see about the toll that is taking

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on that family and those people are individual families.

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We treat politicians and candidates sometimes as these caricatures, right, and we don't

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sometimes see them that this is a real person with a real family, with a real children.

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Even Senator Ted Cruz, who I'm very close with his family, you probably remember during

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the time we had this Texas freeze and our grid was shut down and he was going off to

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Cancun with his daughters, right?

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And people just made fun of him that he was escaping this freeze to go to Cancun with

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his daughters.

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But number one, he couldn't do anything about the situation in Texas.

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Number two, he never sees his family.

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And his daughters were like, Dad, can we just do something for a couple days while you're

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actually stuck here and not in Washington, DC?

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And he's like, yes, daughters, let me help you.

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Let me be in your life.

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And sometimes we forget that these folks are real people with real families and real things

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that they have to deal with.

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Well, I'm on Ted Cruz's Christmas card list.

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I'm not sure how they did.

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So I've kind of watched his girls grow up with their picture every year.

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He's got a beautiful family.

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And of course, he's a great American.

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Our country is so divided.

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We hear that all the time.

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And in some ways, it's been divided for a long time.

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In fact, I'm reading a book called Founding Partisans on how divided things were back

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when John Adams and Thomas Jefferson were presidents.

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So I mean, this goes way, way, way, way back.

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And but it does seem that things have reached a new high when a former president of the

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United States has quite our really frivolous lawsuits of where they're finding technicalities

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to go after him.

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But also, there seems to be a great groundswell of support.

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In fact, President Trump is going to be here at National Religious Broadcasters tomorrow.

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I should say Thursday.

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It's Thursday.

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So in a couple of days, I'll actually be home by then.

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But there's already a buzz.

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People talking about it.

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What do you think is going to happen in this election?

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Well, I think the American people have a choice.

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We can just continue to be apathetic and just continue to exist thinking that things are

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going to fix themselves or we can stand up and we can go, you know what, I've not really

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liked what's happened the last few years.

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And I want to see something different.

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I want economic prosperity.

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I want limited government.

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I want family values to be upheld.

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I don't want the pride flag, you know, on the White House constantly.

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I want to see something different.

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And so we're going to have choices.

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We are picking, Steve, as you know, between imperfect candidates.

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Neither are perfect, but we have to look at the platforms of the parties, what they say

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they believe, but to say what the candidates say out of their own mouth.

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And when it comes to president, we need to consider that the president will be electing

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or will be putting in every person on that executive branch.

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Every person, all the cabinet members, the thousands of federal employees, and they will

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be putting in every federal judge.

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The policies at the border.

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Yep.

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Having a strong stance militarily so that we don't invite the bad guys to attack.

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I was telling somebody recently that I really believe that if President Trump had been elected

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last time that the Ukraine war would have never happened.

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Putin would not have.

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He would have seen.

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You would have seen strength, not weakness.

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And there's other examples too.

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I mean, there's even a reason to believe that the Halas War might not have started.

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We can only speculate, but it's a very, very important time.

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And of course, as Christians, we believe that we have to pray.

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And that sounds like a cliche.

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And for some people, it may be even a cop out, but the spiritual world is more real

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than the physical world.

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And we access the spiritual world with prayer.

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Yes.

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And I believe that God still has a plan of purpose for the United States.

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I don't believe that God is finished and there's been all kinds of prophecies and everything

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else.

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So.

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Well, and I'll say this to Steve as we close this, that the reality is I wish a civic engagement

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ministry such as Christians engaged didn't have to exist.

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I wish every Christian was voting regularly.

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I wish every Christian was engaging in their community, but we're not.

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But we have to exist because liberty has to be protected so that the gospel can go to

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the ends of the earth.

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I'm not saying that America is special nation above all other nations, but I am saying that

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God has used America and the blessings that he's given our nation and economic prosperity

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to fuel billions of dollars into the proclamation of the gospel around the world.

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So I get up every morning and say, I want to mobilize Christians to pray for this nation,

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vote in every election and engage in our communities so that liberty can be infected.

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So the gospel can go to the ends of the earth.

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So well said.

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And I want people to connect with you.

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And as we wrap up, I want you to tell how people can get a copy of this book and also

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to engage with no pun intended.

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With your ministry.

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But first, I want to ask people to, if you don't already subscribe to the Strang Report,

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hit subscribe at the little bell so you're notified when we're on live and we do different

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special things and share this with anyone you know that would be interested in this

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or who you think should be interested.

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Let's get the word out.

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If change is going to happen, it's going to happen from the grassroots.

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Yes.

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Not from the top down.

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I really believe that.

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So how can people get the book?

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Where's it?

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My charisma shop.

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So at charisma, you can get it at Amazon.com, Barnes and Noble, Christian book.com, Bunny

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pounds.com and Christians engaged.

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Join us join a movement of Christians.

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We have 200,000 Christians now in our system praying every week for America, voting in

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every election and starting to engage in their community with our on demand video curriculum.

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So go to Christiansengaged.org and sign up and take the pledge.

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And let's do this, folks.

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Let's reach a million Christians before the presidential election.

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Wouldn't that be awesome?

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Amen.

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And I'm going to sign up myself and I hope that a lot of my viewers and listeners will

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do that.

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So we're tuning in to this special live edition from the National Religious Broadcasters in

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Nashville and tune in again on Thursday at four o'clock for another edition of the Strang

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Report on the Charisma Podcast Network.

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God bless you.

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Do you ever feel discouraged?

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Do you need hope?

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The world is so upside down that even if you believe there's power in the Holy Spirit,

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sometimes you need to be reminded that greater is He that is within us than He is in the

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world.

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My new book, Spirit-led Living in an Upside Down World, was written to give you hope,

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to remind you of things you know, to explain spiritual truths that you didn't understand

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or maybe have forgotten.

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I draw in my decades of covering the worldwide move of the Holy Spirit to give you examples

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and stories of great men and women of God from Jack Hayford to Catherine Coleman and

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00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:55,720
many others explaining spiritual gifts and telling stories of victory in the face of

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trials and temptations.

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I wrote this book for you and I want you to read it.

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It's easy to read with lots of practical stories to help you.

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It is not a theological treatise on the Holy Spirit.

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In a way, it's a self-help book looking at the spiritual side of life.

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So if you long for more of God and to experience the power of the Holy Spirit and the power

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to rebuke the spiritual attacks in your life and boldness to stand for God, when the cancel

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culture wants you to sit down and shut up, then my book, Spirit-led Living in an Upside

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Down World, is for you.

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You can find the book wherever Christian books are sold, including Amazon.com or My CharismaShop.com.

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Remember, the Holy Spirit is here to help us now and for all the days ahead, no matter

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how upside down the world gets.

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Enjoy the book and God bless you.