How to Operate in Prophecy (And How Not To) | With Jeremiah Johnson

I'm just so overwhelmed with joy to be able to have this conversation.

We're going to talk about the essentials of the prophetic today.

And so, Jeremiah, welcome to the broadcast.

Hey Mike, thanks so much for having me on.

Looking forward to talking today with you.

You've been operating in the prophetic for some time now.

And so really I've got people that are being trained all around the world.

And you know, for them, maybe they attended churches where they didn't believe that the gifts of the Spirit were even in operation, or maybe they were told by the pastor, you know, we have one designated that prophesies and it's not you.

And so for the people that are being raised up in this hour, I just want to give you some time to talk and just share.

What are the essentials that you would say, hey, listen, there's an infinite amount of resources and videos and an infinite amount of people that all have opinions.

But as somebody who I personally trust and I followed your ministry for years, you know, what would you say?

Hey, these are the essentials?

Yeah, a couple of things that come to mind.

I think it's really important as we just begin a conversation to recognize that there's a difference between Old Covenant prophecy and New Covenant prophecy.

I don't think that a lot of people understand that.

So when you talk about, you know, the Old Testament, underneath an Old Covenant, you had prophets who were the singular voice of God to a nation.

In other words, the Holy Spirit didn't dwell within man, he dwelled upon man.

And so in order to get a direct word from God, most of the time, unless God himself just showed up like he did with Abraham or others, the kings would seek out prophets for a word from the Lord.

So in other words, they were a mediator between God and man.

So that's Old Testament prophetic.

In the New Testament, Jesus Christ has become the mediator that between God and man.

In other words, prophets or prophetic people in the New Covenant no longer hold the kind of authority that they did in the Old Covenant.

So it's really important I tell people the blood of Jesus has banned feeding tube Christianity.

In other words, we've got to make sure as New Testament prophetic people that we recognize we definitely have a role to encourage and comfort people and bring strength.

You know, if God has called you to a, to the prophetic, you know, ministry, you're a New Testament prophet.

Even there.

You know, you have, you know, you offer direction, correction and prediction, primarily those three.

But you have to recognize the role that you have is different than that of an Old Covenant prophet.

So you hear people make statements like, like where are the Jeremiah's, the Isaiah's ears equals?

I'm like, they're dead.

I mean, I, I get what they're saying.

But that kind of authority in the New Testament church is no longer necessary.

Jesus is the mediator between God and man.

And if, and if someone is functioning as a New Testament prophet, their number one role is not just to give you a word, it's to teach you how to hear a word.

And so again, there's that heavy dependence upon prophets and Old Covenant that now in the New Covenant we prophesy, but we teach people how to hear and obey God.

So that's something that comes to me, I think is super important.

Secondly, I would also say that in the Old Covenant, again, I'm still going back to this issue because so much of the confusion that's available in the current prophetic movement, I really believe is centered on the misunderstanding of Old Coven and New Covenant.

So Old Covenant, there's a primary role of voice to the nation.

New Covenant, we've got Jesus.

The Holy Spirit leads and guides us into all truth.

Secondly, I would say that in Old Testament, prophets were for the most part unaccountable.

They wandered around in caves.

They weren't well connected.

They just kind of dropped the word of the Lord in and then dropped out again.

In the New Covenant, we have now been established and invited into the family of God.

So what I tell people is prophets and prophetic.

People in the Old Covenant were cave dwellers.

Now in the New Covenant, we've been invited to a family, to a dining room table where we no longer have permission to isolate.

A lot of the problem in the current prophetic movement is it's just kind of like, I'm a prophet, I'm a prophetic person.

No one understands me.

I operate in rejection.

And all church leadership are Pharisees and of the devil.

All of that kind of rhetoric and mindset is rooted in Old Covenant concepts.

So I very, very much believe that one of the primary issues in modern day prophetic ministry is we are operating out of an Old Covenant mindset concerning the prophetic and we don't understand New Testament reality.

So if you are a prophet or prophetic person, it's like especially the prophets, right?

You are called to equip the body for the work of ministry.

How can you equip a body if you're disconnected from, from them?

So when I talk to prophets, where do you attend church?

Who, what are you building or.

Or who is the person you're helping to build?

They just kind of look at you crazy.

And again, kind of that crazy that comes on them is they have a crazy mindset rooted in a covenant that now long, that is now fulfilled in Christ Jesus.

So, Mike, I know we can talk more, but those two things, like, are so essential.

Understanding your role as a prophet or prophetic person in the body is to point people to Jesus, is to teach people how to hear and obey, obey the voice of God for themselves.

We're not supposed to be raising up a codependent.

You gotta sow a seed.

You gotta fund my ministry or I'm not prophesying to you, that's bogus.

And then we've got to get lone ranger mentalities.

These wandering, wanderings, wounded prophetic people that don't believe in the local church.

They don't believe that they're a part of a team.

We've got to.

We've got to get over that so that we can get healthy in the prophetic.

Wow, this is so good.

You know, let's just unpack this a little bit, because what do you think happens in someone's heart for them to say, I'm wounded and I'm just not going to try the local church again?

Is it that we're living in an era where there aren't that many local churches that can incubate the prophetic and help grow?

You know, as a lead pastor myself, I'll be honest with you, Sometimes I do feel like, man, it is rare to even pastor a church that appreciates the prophetic in other people.

And so I know there's a lot of woundedness in there.

You probably triggered a lot of people with what you just said.

So how could we turn this into a healing moment?

I mean, what would you say to someone who's like, I know what you're saying is the truth, but.

Cause, you know, Jeremiah, I read all the comments, and so many people are like, I know that in my head, but I'm so wounded.

If you could see the scars, you know, how do I take that next step?

What does that look like?

Yeah, I think honestly, people get set free with the truth.

I mean, Mike, I have honestly probably, to date, trained at least 10,000.

That's 10,000.

I've ministered in over 500 churches, over 10,000 prophetic people.

If you got us all in a room, we're all going to say the same thing.

Because the profile of prophetic people is you have to accept that you will Drink the cup of rejection on your way to prophetic maturity.

A lot of prophets and prophetic people, we don't want to, we don't want to receive that.

When you start talking to many of us, you were rejected by your family.

Sometimes there's supernatural birth experiences.

You were certainly thrown away by the local church.

But my thing, Mike, is we have to keep our eyes on Jesus.

He that was without sin.

I, I oftentimes say we have no right to judge and criticize the church unless we're willing to die for her.

So a lot of this like again, it's just like, I get it, we've all been rejected.

We've all been wounded, we've all served our Saul.

But remember, you served Saul to get Saul out of you.

In other words, we're on a journey as prophetic people, just willing.

You are going to get rejected.

You are going to be misunderstood.

But this is part of your training for love.

Jesus Christ died for love.

He.

There was nothing he did wrong, there was no dirt on him, but he still chose to love.

So Mike, I hear it.

I've trained them, I've walked with them.

Every true prophetic call person is gonna go to the wilderness as part of their calling.

But not everybody gets out.

In other words, many, many are called, few are chosen.

In other words, many are called to the prophetic ministry where you're going to drink that cup of rejection.

But very few walk in forgiveness.

Very few learn how to heal.

And again, who's our example?

Jesus Christ, King of Kings, Lord of Lords.

He walked this out as the greatest prophet who ever lived.

And he invites prophets and prophetic people today to drink that cup of rejection and again realize a lot of people.

I would love to tell people listening today, hey, God's going to send you to a great church.

They're going to love the prophetic.

That's not true.

Actually, God is going to send a lot of people.

He is going to send you to Sauls, he is going to send you to assemblies and places that are going to crush you.

They're going to hurt you, they're going to persecute you.

And it's in those trials and tribulations you have an opportunity to bear with the sufferings of Christ and learn how to walk in a pure prophetic flow.

Jeremiah, I've been studying the prophetic for over 30 years now.

That stretch of an answer was the most profound, profound answer I have ever heard.

I mean, the whole time I was thinking, you just saved some people, decades, you just saved some people years if they'll let that get in their spirit.

I mean, this is just so rich, y' all.

You know, here's the thing.

I think the biggest emphasis with the prophetic is always accuracy.

Right?

How can I be.

Accuracy, accuracy, accuracy.

I think what I hear you saying is that New Covenant prophecy is more about being integrated into the body.

And it's more about your position than it is about your accuracy, if that makes sense.

Because, you know, trying to migrate somebody into integration where you are a part of something, you're building something, there's a legacy connected to it of the body of Christ.

And so what would you say to those who are like, okay, I get it.

I'm really watching this right now because I wanna learn how to become more accurate.

I'm not getting the answer I want, which is often how God responds.

Cause I think we're dealing with character issues right now.

But what would you say about accuracy?

Yeah, I think it's going back to that misunderstanding of covenants.

You know, in the Old Covenant, when people would prophesy it wasn't a hundred percent accurate, they would stone them.

And if you go and look at that Deuteronomy passage that most people quote about stoning false prophets, when it's talking about false, it's talking about prophets who intentionally.

In other words, there's a motivation in their heart that's trying to lead people away from Jesus.

In a New Covenant, I.

I quote First Corinthians 14, it says, Let two or three prophets speak and let the others judge.

So in the Old Covenant, prophecy was infallible because it was the very words of God.

But in the New Covenant, prophecy is absolutely fallible.

Prove it.

Why do two or three prophets have to judge another prophet?

Prophet's words.

If the words a hundred percent accurate, it's not.

Or in First Thessalonians 5, when it talks about prophecy, it says, let everybody go, but then hold on to that which is good.

In other words, not every prophecy that prophesies is good.

So, Mike, I would say the goal is not accuracy, although we should have a high standard.

We should.

My thing is, I don't look at somebody as a true prophet necessarily because they prophesied a hundred percent accurate.

I look at true prophets as people that prophesy accurately, but if they miss it, they repent, they own it, they walk in humility versus we're like, oh, they prophesied something.

It didn't come to pass.

They're false.

I think they're more false if they operate in pride and arrogance.

And refuse to own it versus walking in humility and say, you know what, I'm dying to my reputation.

I missed it.

And again, it's all about Jesus.

I'm.

Half the time I'm like, thank God.

I don't know any prophets that are 100% accurate.

And you know what, I thank God for that because it brings me into alignment with it's all about Jesus, only he is 100% accurate.

So I don't think the goal is accuracy, although it's very, very important.

I think the goal is humility.

It's being conn to family and serving the body of Christ like Jesus.

Oh, this has just been so good.

I know that right now I could just tell you there are going to be many people saying this was too short.

We need to hear more.

The good news is you are a prolific writer.

And so I want to encourage everybody, if you want to continue this conversation, you need to know that he is equipping the saints, equipping the body.

And there's one book in particular that we had talked about.

I'd love for you to just tell everybody about it so they can go a little bit deeper on this journey and give you guys an opportunity to really continue your learning.

Yeah.

I wrote a book called Cleansing and Igniting the Prophetic.

And the subtitle is An Urgent Wake up Call.

And I dedicated the book to Leonard Ravenhill and David Wilkerson, two of my heroes.

There's so much more.

I mean, for me, Mike, as I told you, I could could talk hours and hours and hours on these subjects.

But if you're wanting to dive deeper, there is a cleansing, there is a purging, there is almost a reset happening in the prophetic movement.

And that's why people are on today.

You're asking questions, you want knowledge.

God is highlighting prophetic ministry because he wants to call forth a generation of firebrand messengers who are going to prophesy out of humility and character and really hit the mark.

So check out that book.

Yeah, you've gotta get that book.

I've got so many more questions.

I know we're gonna have to have you back round two so we can go a little bit deeper on that.

But if we were to do just like a rapid fire 60 second, what are some essential do's and don'ts?

Like, is there anything that you're like, okay, I've got literally tens of thousands of people who are watching this and if I could just tell the kingdom, don't do this, or make sure that you do this.

If there's anything off the top of your head or at the forefront of your spirit, I wanted to give you an opportunity to do that.

Yeah.

Just real quickly.

If you're called as a prophet or a prophetic person, do not isolate yourself.

You have to understand that you.

You're going to be rejected.

But you do not have to operate out of a spirit of rejection.

You need to know that the enemy of the prophetic is Jezebel.

There is a great war concerning hearing and obeying God.

And the spirit of Jezebel will target you and try to keep you from hearing and obeying God.

I would also say be aware of your tendencies.

Do not ignore what you feel, the burden that you're carrying.

And then I would say, do not operate in bitterness.

Do not operate, operate in unforgiveness.

Do walk in humility, love and forgiveness.

And last thing, you need mentoring.

You have to have fathering and mothering in the prophetic to make it through the wilderness.

I would say, at all costs, if you're a prophet, prophetic person, seek wisdom, seek mentoring, seek mothering and fathering.

It saved my life, and I believe it will save yours.