We Shouldn't Have Gotten Married.... The Truth About Our Marriage | Feat. Pastor Julie Signorelli

Hey.

So I'm here with my lovely wife Julie, and we're going to be talking about what men and women really want today.

We're going to talk about men want respect and admiration and women want security.

And they're back tickled.

Play with my hair.

Okay, so we're going to have a very vulnerable conversation.

I just want everybody to know this is going to heal your marriage.

And, and then also if you're like single, this is going to prepare you for marriage.

But here's where it gets juicy.

We did not pre prepare for this.

No, we did not like this.

And because I wanted it to be vulnerable and I wanted people to watch me.

And you actually communicate.

So there are no notes.

Yeah, you didn't even schedule it with me.

I came home, this was set up, and you said, we are doing this.

Actually, what you said was, I just got my hair done.

Yes.

And my hair looks so good that if I was ever going to film, it's going to be now.

Let's do it.

So.

So why don't you pull the audio a little closer just in case you have a voice and that you're heard.

So we've been married for almost 20 years.

We've been together for 22, 23 years.

Something like that.

Which is crazy to think about.

We have an 18 year old, which is also crazy to think about because you look 18.

Thanks.

I cannot wrap my head around it.

Yeah.

And then we have a 10 year old.

Yes.

And then we have a dog that I hate.

Yeah, I hate him.

But he loves me the most.

But I hate him the most.

And we're working on that.

So let's talk about this.

Because the truth is me, I don't know if we should have got married.

Yeah, I know.

It's so funny.

I don't know if you remember this, but like I was just thinking that the, the.

No, no, no.

The.

The week before we got married or two weeks before we got married, our pastor at the time actually brought us up in front of the church.

They prayed for us before our wedding.

And because we got married, we had a destination wedding.

So we got married out of town and they said, this is a match made in heaven.

And I remember after our first argument, I'm like, this is not a match made in heaven.

This a match made in hell.

Yeah, that should be the title of our next marriage conference.

Match made in hell.

Because we're opposites in every way.

Just about.

I mean, I was thinking about this the other day.

And aside from ferocious sexual attraction.

Yeah, Go Ahead, go ahead, tell me more.

I mean, like, we connected on a physical level, you know, you know, when we were like dating and stuff like that, and, and we had these conversations about, you know, life and different things, but I didn't realize till after we got married that a lot of it, you were fronting, you know, because like, you were, you were saying the things that a girlfriend says.

Sure.

To deepen a relationship.

And you also did your fair share of front.

And I rem distinctly you being like, I love Garth Brooks too.

And I'm like, you never listen record for that.

But, but I, I do remember, I do remember.

Yeah.

In the day saying things like, I don't think we would ever fight.

What, what would we ever fight about?

That line, you know, I don't even.

Know what we, what would we ever fight about?

Yeah.

And so lots of things, but the truth is we're complete opposite.

So if you're watching this right now.

Yeah.

And you're in a marriage and you feel like I messed up, I.

I shouldn't even be together.

There is a big part of me that's always thought, like, I don't know that me and you were compatible.

And you know, when you think like compatibility, like we've had to learn like, I think the health of our marriage is that we've learned how to become compatible.

Right.

But I don't think that we are naturally compatible at all.

Yeah.

And I will say, like, people will say like, oh, you have to be friends first.

And I'm like, we were great friends.

We were horrible spouses.

Yeah.

That's the best put it.

I don't know that that's like the most valuable thing, but I don't know.

We didn't know how to live together.

Right.

We had completely different backgrounds.

And so like when men need respect and admiration and women need safety and like, you know, they, they need safety, they need the comfortability.

Right.

Because you're wired that way.

And for those of you who are like, oh, they don't get it, you know, this is like, you know, this is too specific.

Like, men need safety too.

No, we're talking about the predominant need.

Yes.

Because of course, men need a degree of safety, but they, we are biologically wired because of testosterone and various different things to seek risk.

You know, that's why male dominated fields tend to be risk seeking fields.

Right.

Yeah.

And you see more men in those fields.

And so in the same way a woman is, is built for security, which I think is primal, because women birth children and they have ensure that Those children, which really human beings are born, like, without the ability to care for themselves as at all.

Like a horse comes out of the mother and immediately stands up and starts walking around.

And a child can't even start walking for 10, 11 months early and then a year later.

So human beings are born incredibly dependent.

And so women, I believe the female gender, it really has a predisposition towards safety because it's like, in you, right?

Yes.

And, you know, people who try to deny those norms are just denying reality.

Right, Right.

I was, I saw a piece of content the other day and they saw the book, you know, it was like, Love and Respect.

And they were like, this is responsible for my deconstruction.

And I'm like, no, this is going to be responsible for your divorce if you burn that book.

Like, the reality is, is like, you cannot have a successful relationship with disrespect both ways, with not giving love and attention both ways without offering security both ways.

But predominantly women are find, for the most part, love in these certain areas, and men are going to find them in these certain areas.

So if you're evolved and you're a man and you say, I don't need respect, okay, like, we don't believe you.

That's called cognitive dissonance.

And you're lying to yourself.

Yes.

And I know you're trying to be evolved, but, like, you know, it's not going to last long, I'll just tell you that.

Right.

Well, when you go back to Genesis, chapter three, basically, Eve was created for companionship.

Adam said, I'm alone, which is crazy because he's walking with God in the garden, and he has purpose.

This is pre sin.

Right.

So sin has not entered the earth.

By the way, Adam had a job before sin entered the earth.

And so men need to have a job.

Men need to work.

Please work.

If you're watching this right now, like, and you're spending more time in video games and fantasy, you need to get a job.

Yeah, I'm speaking to the men right now.

Like, matter of fact, you can share this video with a man who needs this message.

You need to get a job.

And it's.

If you're not working, what's happening is you're contributing to your depression, your anxiety, your fear, your worry.

Like, get your body moving, get out of the bed, get out of that gamer chair and go work.

And so the other thing, though is that men want to feel that they're climbing the social hierarchy.

They want to feel like, I'm respected, you know, that when I Talk, people listen.

And so men will not go to environments where they're not being heard, they're not being listened.

So did this is like even their friends, their friends listen to them.

Their friend.

You know, it's funny because the gamers put headsets on and they go on these missions together with guns in these various different video games.

And they listen to each other and they cooperate.

Men need missions.

It's, it's really because we're built to be conquerors.

And so like God gave Adam dominion over the garden and which was an assignment.

He said, I want you to name the creation and I want you to keep this thing, dress it it like take care of it.

You have dominion.

But then also he said in the midst of that, I'm lonely.

So most of you watching and I'm speaking to the men.

You don't have the gift of singleness, which is why you keep going back to fee master and it's why you keep going to the strip club.

It's why you keep going into inappropriate relationships.

Like you.

The Bible says it's better to marry than to burn.

And so right now we keep extending the how long we're married.

You know, we, we wait.

Like I need to be older till I get married.

I need to have more.

And what's happening is you're burning instead of marrying.

And the Bible says it's better to marry than to burn.

And what I'm saying is it's like we have this delayed adolescence, extended adolescence.

And if you're watching this like you're probably a brother and a son, but you haven't become a father and a husband.

And we need men to become husbands.

We need men to become fathers and stop just being brothers and sons.

Yeah.

But for me, I know here's the bigger point I want to make and then I want to hear what you have to say about this from the female perspective is I, I got married.

But.

And even our pastors agreed that this was a good thing.

Yeah.

Me and you are complete and total opposites.

I was not equipped for marriage.

I didn't know how to have a wife.

And I have always found it funny that it's.

You have to take a test to get a driver's license, but you don't have to take a test to get a marriage license.

Right.

So like you can drive a 2 ton steel vehicle at 100 miles an hour and you have to take a test to ensure that you can safely do that, not kill yourself and other people, but you can make the most important decision of your life without a test.

Right.

Which is your spouse.

Right.

And so me and you had to figure out how to be married, and we're still figuring out how to be married in every season of our life.

But I feel like I, in the early days of our marriage, if I could be blunt, felt extremely disrespected all the time.

I felt like you undermined everything I said, thought.

I just felt like amongst my friends, you know, you had battled me out.

No, don't do that.

I don't want you to do that.

And it just, it triggered me.

And I'm very autonomous and I.

You know what I mean?

My personality is more of the leader, the alpha.

And so being in a relationship where you're a very strong woman, you're opinionated and, you know, there were things that I was doing that you didn't want me to do.

It just.

I felt like in those early days, it was very, very difficult, you know, and then I came from the other side of the tracks, so I had poverty mindsets.

You know, I.

And then you came from a very.

Holiday that was huge.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

You had a very strong middle class upbringing.

Yeah.

So it was like we had.

We had a culture clash of.

Of like, classes.

It's like lower class versus middle class.

We had this, like, we were kind of.

We weren't.

We weren't complementing each other.

Like, Adam and Eve were supposed to be companions.

Yeah.

But, like, I think what happens a lot of times is there's more compact combat than companionship.

And like, we kind of had that.

But then I also don't feel like I did a good job of loving you and listening to you.

And, And I really.

I tried to provide safety and security, and I didn't probably do the best job for that because I was doing high risk behaviors.

So what was it like for you?

Wanting.

So now you've heard my side.

They've heard my side.

Yeah, I want to.

What was it like from your perspective, you know, not having the security, not having the safety, not having.

Because here's this wild man with all this potential.

But I was destroying our lives and our relationship.

So I had, like, unrestrained potential.

But then you, you know, had this need for safety.

Right, right.

You know, for me, I grew up in a very stable home, thank God.

So we only had half the trauma that most people have, because most people are coming from two broken homes.

I mean, just the.

Statistically in the United States, you know, globally, I'm.

I'm not sure what those statistics are, but here I mean, over half of households are divorce.

There's divorce somewhere in their story.

So thankfully we only had like half of that.

But even given that there's still patterns, behaviors, you know, things that contribute to not healthy marriage.

And I distributed or I what do you exhibited many of those toxic behaviors, Passive aggressive communication, wanting to have control, you know, having feelings and not knowing how to articulate them.

I wish, you know, and you, and you can't go back.

But man, if, if I could, if I could go back and have the tools that we all have, this podcast, these sermon series, you know, different pieces of content that are out, out there, therapy that you can just open your computer and receive help and you know, healing.

It's like, man, we, it would have been such a different story for us because we weren't that smart, but we would have been smart enough to use the tools.

And so I remember like just feeling so broken in our marriage, feeling like, you know, I'm unhappy, I'm frustrated.

And I remember going to like the Christian bookstore and just going down the aisles and thinking like, I don't even know where to start, you know, and.

And it wasn't until years later, unfortunately, that we did began to get couples counseling.

We just weren't smart enough to start that process, like right at the end.

Listening, listen.

Counseling isn't the end all, be all.

It is not a global solution.

The solution is Jesus.

And all those things are tools, you know, on our journey.

But for me, you did have a lot of high risk behaviors and that did affect me.

And.

But I will say you were always a hard worker.

I never had to get you up for work once.

I never had to be worried about if you were going to show up or so being a provider, that was a huge thing.

And I know a lot of women out there, they struggle in that area.

So I can't identify with that struggle because no matter what, you are always a great provider.

Thank you for that, by the way.

And I like the way you're saying was like, I'm dead right now.

Like the way you're speaking is like a funeral.

Like, yeah, he was always a great provider.

Well, but you, that person is dead to me, praise God, you know, because I don't even think about you in those ways anymore.

Amen.

That I'll take that as the biggest miracle I've ever caught on film.

Amen.

To be, for a man to be able to say that the parts of you that were a failure are dead to your wife is the evidence of how much work we've done.

Yeah.

And it's still work.

And, you know, of course we have things that we work through now, but some of those major issues, I mean, really, really, I see now that the enemy was using that as a tool to separate us, divorce us, you know, cause us to not, you know, be together, not have our children.

Like, it was definitely a plan for the enemy.

But, yes, you.

You were.

You did do dumb things.

Things that hurt me just ways that you would, you know, like, not acknowledge certain holidays.

It was like this.

This rebellion.

And even though, like, oh, it's just a holiday.

But that made me feel unsafe because I wanted to provide a life where things were special.

There were special days.

There were important days.

So if you're a man and you're watching this podcast and you eye roll every time there's a birthday party or every time there's a holiday, or every time your wife wants you guys to match, this man right here can identify.

But I will also say, you, sir, will always match the family.

And you never give me any lip about it.

Maybe you could talk more about that journey.

Well, nobody on one of those.

Those things bigger than me now.

Yeah, yeah.

You're buying the matching shirts.

I turned, I did a 180.

Yeah, yeah.

But also, just to put some context on it, I was raised in an incredibly poor family with a lot of trauma and abuse.

So what happened was every single one of my holidays was sabotaged.

So it created a trauma trigger.

Yes.

So what would happen was like, if you wake up on Christmas morning as a kid a couple of times with no presence or even worse, no heat, like, you're waking up because.

And you're wearing six layers of clothes so you don't get frostbite while you're sleeping.

There is no.

I'm waiting to go get the presents under the tree.

That traumatizes you in America, right?

Yeah, because even, you know, there's different degrees of poverty.

And I somehow was in that lowest level.

Yeah.

Where it's like, it's possible to actually starve and be hungry or.

And be, you know, cold and not have presence.

So then of course, you get married and you're with this, like, middle class white family that's like, look, guys, look at, you know, oh, don't open this.

And it's every little.

Everyone come down the stairs at the same time.

And it would be.

It would just irk me because I was so wounded.

And there's many of you guys watching right now where it's like, does your wife get on your nerves?

Or does your situation trigger your own trauma?

Okay, so that is the, that's what I wish I would have understood at that time.

Well, you know, but that's the thing is you would have been more empathetic of me and be like, my God, there's a broken 8 year old boy that's sitting in that corner right now who doesn't want to be a part of any of this because he never had a dad, he never had presents, and it's hard for him to see this and it's hard for him to be happy because that's really the what was happening.

So you're empathetic.

Yeah, but then I've also grown in my empathy to say, but why did I.

Like, somebody else stabbed me, but I bled on you.

Yeah, like somebody else hurt me, but then I ended up hurting you.

And so it's like what you have to tell that boy is like, hey, one day you're going to become a man.

And you can never use an excuse to hurt the people that you are supposed to protect because husbands are protectors, husbands are providers.

And going back to Genesis, chapter three, there was a, there was a.

You know, basically it says that from the side of Adam, we say the rib.

But I like the, the original biblical text, it just says the side.

And so if God wanted to make another Adam and just say, hey, you know, here's Adam and Steve, you know, in other words, I'm going to make someone exactly like you, right?

Then that's what God would have done.

But in his infinite wisdom and knowledge, he said, and he said, I'm going to make woman.

And she's not going to be like you.

Matter of fact, like your skin's going to be calloused and a little harder and your body shapes me, but woman is going to be soft, she's going to have curves.

It's different and it's complementary.

So the differences are supposed to complement and what I think when I started this podcast, I talked about how different we were, but the truth is we were different by design.

And what happens is you were my greatest asset.

I was your greatest asset.

Because what if, if you found a way to channel all of my vision and all of my passion and all of that, you know, tenacity, that risk I could literally take on the world, we can accomplish these big things.

So it, and I would even pull you out of your comfort zone and you would be using the gifts that God had for you.

But in order for that to happen, you have to honor the things that actually scares you the most.

And then.

But for me, I need to.

I need the counterbalance of Sabbath and rest and family and making special memories that they.

They get filmed but never released on YouTube.

Yeah.

And it's.

And it's like.

And we have matching.

And so the normalcy becomes the counterbalance for the greatness where it's like we fill the stadium, but we also filled our home with joy.

It's like the counterbalance.

So it's like.

And what we.

In the early days of our mar.

It's like we had the potential to have this happy, healthy, vibrant home.

And we also had the potential to, like, launch churches across America and fill stadiums.

But it was like that potential was hiding in me and that potential was hiding in you.

And it was so radically different that we couldn't see the value in it.

So my wounds wouldn't let me see the value in having normal memories.

But then your passive aggressive.

You come from a family, you know, shout out, Nana, Holy Ghost, and we're just airing all your business.

But you guys come from a family where there is a lot of.

Like, you guys didn't fight, but you.

But you were fighting.

You just didn't yell.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So it was like there was tension, there was things being said.

It's just nobody raised their voice because it was passive aggressive.

Yeah.

And then you guys were aggressive, aggressive, aggressive.

And neither one is healthy.

And what we had to do is just find like, okay, where are we at?

In like, where.

Where's the.

The healthy?

Who are the Signorelli?

Who are the Signorellis?

Yeah.

And I would say, you know, it took us 20 years, but.

And I think we're getting better every day at it, but we're on our way, you know, and here's the thing.

I don't know if you've ever.

Well, you've been on a cruise.

We've been on a cruise together.

Although you took Dramamine and I've been.

On a cruise once.

You know that.

And you never even saw the light of day, do you.

Should I at least tell them what you're referencing?

It's funny, I.

I think cruises are the floating Walmart of the sea.

And I'm just.

You're going, they're gonna come for you.

I love it.

All joking aside, I used to be an alcoholic, so God delivered me from alcoholism.

All the alcohols, sometimes being around all that environment because.

And that I was joking about the Walmart of the sea, but I did see a meme.

Yeah.

Of the sea.

No, there's some Nice cruises.

And everybody's going to be in the comments section right now telling me all the cruise lines I should try out.

Yeah.

But for me, as somebody who is delivered from alcohol, a lot of people do go on cruises to just drink exorbitant amounts, lay out in the sun and all that.

Right.

And so for me, that's not my ideal vacation.

And I like to explore.

Yeah.

So I did compromise and we went one year and I got a little seasick, so I took Dramamine, not knowing that I have some kind of allergic reaction to it.

He slept.

I was reading about it, and for three days straight, the cruise was only four.

I mean, I was in and out of consciousness.

I.

I have never slept that much in my adult life.

So.

Okay, so what I was saying that like, okay, so you're on a cruise.

Right.

And what happens is, is as you get closer to the shore, it becomes more clear to you.

Yeah.

But all that's already there.

It's not.

It didn't appear.

It was there forever.

It's just your vantage point changed.

Yeah.

And I think in marriage it's like two.

It's like a cruise ship being really far from the shore.

And over the years, as you get closer and closer, over time, you begin to see a little bit more clearly.

And now, fortunately for those who have access to the Internet and all these amazing tools that are out there, like this stream, like this podcast, like this sermon series, you guys are lightning years ahead of us, but that ship can move a lot faster for you.

For us, it was a really slow.

You know, we were rowers.

We were on a rowboat 20 years ago.

Yeah.

You people take this for granted, but like, 20 years ago, you.

Counseling wasn't normalized.

No.

In fact.

Yeah.

Wouldn't you say it was like, like kind of looked down upon.

Yeah.

It was almost like counseling meant something was really wrong and it wasn't going to get better.

That was the perception.

It wasn't like, I'm going to go to counseling and it's going to make us better.

Right.

The perception was something's really wrong and it's never going to get better, and it's just something you do to help.

And then like, you had mentioned going to the Christian bookstore, and in the Christian bookstore, it was like you, you could read the books and stuff, but there was no.

I mean, we got married.

Like pre YouTube.

Yeah.

So there was no.

Like, you just go on YouTube and whatever.

Now I say all that to say that, like, we did make the decision, go to counseling and we Did a couple different rounds of it in a couple different ways, and each round had a different effect on us.

But ultimately, it was the work that we've put in.

Because a counselor can't make our marriage healthy.

It's us choosing to use the tools that the counselor gave us.

You know what I mean?

It's almost like I can hand you a hammer and the nails and the lumber, give you the blueprint and tell you how to build a house, but you have to actually build it.

You have to swing the hammer.

You know what I mean?

So what we were really doing was, like, we were getting the blueprints, getting the raw materials, and me and you had to be like, are we going to build the Signorelli house?

Right.

And we caught ourselves doing it.

We were tired.

We are exhausted.

But then when we step back, and this is the thing, a lot of people, you know, I wish I had a marriage like yours to us feels like the equivalency of, man, I wish I had a house like that.

But it's like, man, but we built this house through the snow, through the rain, through the storm, like, brick by brick, you know, we built this thing, you know, and.

And so it wasn't given to us.

And I think a lot of people have this mindset of, like, healthy marriages are inherited, not built.

Right, right.

You work on it every day.

Yes.

And it's like, even Adam and Eve is such a great narrative because they're complimentary, but Satan comes and just is easily able to deceive Eve.

Eve is easily able to persuade her husband.

And, you know, obviously Adam didn't lead in that situation, and humanity falls.

And so you took.

You know, a lot of.

A lot of times right now, we talk about our soulmates.

Real.

Let me know in the comments section whether or not you think soulmates are a real thing.

Like, is there one person.

But here's what we.

Here's what I know biblically, is that Eve was the one for Adam.

Think about it.

She was the only one.

She was the only one, and yet they still fell.

Right?

So this is a mic drop moment for somebody.

This is good.

But, like, even when God says, yeah, this is the one, her name's Eve, you're still gonna fall.

Yeah.

And so what you've got to do is to say, okay, God, cover me in my nakedness, Walk with me in the garden and teach me your ways.

And I think for me and you, we had to call out to God.

God, cover our marriage.

Cover us, walk with us.

We need to figure this out, we don't know.

And through a lot of humility, I think, just as we come to a close on this, what women really want.

Men.

Women really want security.

And they don't feel secure when they don't have the password to your phone.

They don't feel secure when they can't log into the bank account and.

And even see it.

They don't feel secure when you're telling them how much you don't like that woman at work, unintentionally revealing that that's the only way you can talk about her to your wife and you actually like her and you have a work wife.

They don't feel safe when you've always got an excuse for why you don't go to church, but you would drop everything to go to a football game if somebody gave you tickets.

They don't feel safe when you can watch an MMA with your son but not sit him down and go through the daily growth journal and read the Bible.

They don't feel safe when you know how to fix a car, but you don't know how to fix your marriage.

Like, the men, like, you have to create safety.

And what I started to do is I started to basically just sacrifice.

Like, I'm gonna do whatever I can to try to help Julie feel safe.

Yeah.

And I.

And stop being mad that you didn't trust me and do that.

But then you had a dream, and I want to end on this.

Yeah.

Because if you guys got this far, you're a real one.

And your marriage, there is hope for your marriage.

I do want to say one thing, though, about the respect thing, because I think some women think that by staying married that.

That's respect.

Like, oh, you're lucky I'm still here.

No, ladies, that's not respect.

The fact is, is you chose to stay for regardless of your reasons.

Whatever they are, it doesn't matter what they are.

If you choose to say you choose to bury whatever that thing is, you have to let it go.

You have to resolve in your heart to forgive, move on, not bring it up again.

But so many women, because of the reasons why they stay, they bring up those things.

Constantly.

Bringing up the past, that is not respect.

Being their mom, that is not respect.

Talking to them, talking to them with, like, the, like, less care than you would your friend on the phone.

That's disrespect.

So sometimes so much can be solved by just talking to your husband.

The same.

You talk to your friend on the phone.

You know, like, if you would give them the same Luxury of.

Like, we've talked about this.

You've asked me, why do you give your friends my girlfriend's eye contact?

But you don't give.

You don't look me in the eye.

I'm like, all right, I'll do better.

And why was that?

I don't even remember the answer.

Well, let's.

Let's bring it up again.

I think it's because I'm so secure with you.

Like, it's actually a compliment.

You know what I mean?

Like, oh, this is.

We're.

We're lifers.

We're together for life.

Like, I'm good, you know, but that.

That kind of comfort can be interpreted as disrespect.

And you did you well, because even though that's not disrespectful to me, I literally could care less if you're, like, on your phone doing something.

As long as we're sitting close, like, I'm good.

Like, that is.

It's different for me.

But for you, that's disrespectful to you, which probably is.

Just so people understand, I'm more, like European.

Like, whenever I go to Europe, I am jealous at the way that they engage with each other.

When you go to European countries, like, I'm Italian, and when we go to Italy, I mean, they are looking each other in the eyes.

There's no phones.

And when the people, like, uncomfortably.

Yeah.

And I kind of like it.

Yeah.

And even when, like, people are dating and, you know, I don't know, man, they're romantic overseas and, like, you know, for as much as I'm on social media, I'm actually not, like, addicted to my phone.

And when we would talk, I would be thinking in my mind, like, man, why don't we have a relationship?

Like those that just like crazy Europeans.

Yeah.

Or whatever his name was, you know, like.

And I'm like that.

Even when we went to.

The funny story is, you know, I used to travel to Budapest, Hungary, once or twice a year and minister in Hungary, and I would minister in Ukraine, and I would always.

There's a.

When you go to Budapest, there's a mountain, and if you climb this little mountain, you can see over the whole city.

It's.

It's so.

It's so amazing.

And all the years that I would minister out there, I would climb that hill for exercise.

That mountain, or whatever it is, is alone.

Alone.

And when you're meandering your way up, you're passing all these couples on a blanket, you know, who are just, like, making out and you know, whatever.

And I would say, man, one day I'm going to get Julie out here and we're going to make out on this mountain and we're going to look out into Budapest or whatever.

And I finally get you in Budapest, Hungary.

Yeah.

And all of a sudden we're going up the mountain and you're like, my legs hurt.

I'm tired.

And I'm like, my, my whole fantasy is crumbling.

My shoe broke.

Yeah, her shoe broke.

Then all of a sudden I'm like, look at that couple in that.

You know?

And you're like, I don't know, it's kind of weird.

And then all of a sudden, like, I found that there was a spot that I had this one spot, and it was dark.

And I was like, hey, come over here.

You know, And I was trying to like, hey, we're gonna have our romantic, like European moment where we make that.

And you're like, I don't know, it's dark over there.

And in my mind I was like.

I'm afraid I'm gonna get mugged.

It's like a perfectly safe area.

Yeah.

And it was a total fail.

And we didn't even make out or nothing.

But my point is, I had a.

We had a mismatched expectation because in my mind I wanted us to like, man.

Because I don't want to be married 20, 30, 40 years.

And you become roommates.

Yeah.

And you're, you know, and I had to confront you and be like, why is it that when you're talking to your friends, you're looking them in their eyes, you're engaging them.

When you're around me, you're chilling.

But again, that was an opportunity.

And this could maybe help somebody out there for me to interpret your comfortability as disrespect, when actually it was not connected to respect at all.

It was literally like, hey, Mike, when I'm with them, I feel like I have to be on.

And when I'm with you, I feel.

Like I say off.

Yeah, right, right.

But then also I had to communicate it in a non threatening way.

But then there's the counterbalance.

Like, okay, but there's another human in this equation.

And your spouse feels disrespected when you don't look them in the eye.

Yeah.

And.

And a lot of men, and I get in so much trouble for saying things like this because people, they get real triggered and they don't, they don't understand.

But a lot of men, when they cheat, it is because they feel respected, admired by and by Someone else.

Yeah, the wife and the women are always like, oh, did you see her?

What did.

What did he like, she's a.

She's so ugly.

Looked him in the eye, right.

It's like she.

She like, treats him a different way.

Yeah.

And men are really weird like that, where it's like they think that a lot of women think that men want this, like, like the mud flaps girl, you know, like the perfect hourglass figure.

I was like, mud flap.

But I know what you're talking about.

I'm talking hillbilly lady on the.

Yeah, the woman on the back of the mud flaps.

Yes.

You know, guys are programmed for that.

When you see like the imagery we're exposed to you, you would think that because that's what culture puts out, that that's what men want.

And sometimes women are so confused, like, why would he ever with.

And it's like, dude, it's because of the way she treated him.

And men crave.

Now that doesn't justify it.

Right.

It doesn't make it right, but it explains it.

So it's like, and I'm not again, if you've been victimized and totally destroyed as a result of somebody's infidelity, in no way, shape or form did I want to disrespect that.

But I do want you to understand that, like, sometimes men will find those and other things.

And it's kind of the biblical version of it is like a prophet in his hometown is without honor.

So in other words, like, you know, I've gone to preach at other great men of God's churches and, and where these guys are renowned authors, these guys are prolific preachers.

You know, they've.

They're legends.

And in their own church, their staff and their church members don't respect them.

You know, and it's like that same pastor goes to another church to minister and there's a lineup out the door to.

For a book signing and they go to their own church.

Like, ah, whatever, that's past.

And I've been grieved ministering in the pulpit of legends that their own church.

And so I think sometimes there's this familiarity.

And so like, sometimes it's like when you're a man, when that familiarity sets in, when somebody doesn't treat you like that, it.

It just, it makes you feel so.

Alive and same for women.

You know, if.

Think about your house, if, if somebody came in and was like, I'm going to clean your house for free.

I'm going to do your laundry, I'm going to Buy all your groceries.

I'm going to.

I'm not even going to wait for you to ask for deodorant.

I'm just going to wait for you to mention you're out of deodorant and then go get it for you.

If somebody came into your home and did all those things, you would be like, this is the greatest person in my life.

You'd want to pay them.

You would want to give them your attention, your time.

You would want to thank them in some way.

And it's like, wives do that every single day.

And it's so casual.

It's so familiar.

And I think something that I really want to try to do in this next two decades of our marriage is really.

I've been asking the Holy Spirit, like, remind me when I'm too familiar, like, in our case.

And I know this isn't the case for everybody.

Am I getting too off topic?

Do you want to wrap it up?

No.

We can save it for another podcast.

I will say, and I'm excited to say this, we have three more videos coming.

Oh, maybe I'll save it.

They can binge watch it, like, literally.

But go ahead, say it.

Because we're all on the edge of our seat right now.

I was thinking about the familiarity.

And, you know, like, our dynamic is different.

So we're husband and wife, but we're also pastor congregant and we're boss staff.

So we have, like, these three really or two really odd dynamics that most people probably don't have.

And something I do to break the familiarity of pastor congregant is when we're in spaces of our church, I call you Pastor Mike because that's not for you.

That is for me.

It's to remind me, like, he is my pastor still.

And then when we are in our work setting, I try to treat you as if you are a boss that I'm not married to.

Because that is, you know, that would be the dynamic if I were in a corporate room and in our home.

I'm trying to treat you as if I like indentured servant.

I'm trying to treat you like.

No, I'm.

I'm.

I'm trying.

And, you know, I'm not there yet.

Like, I'm gonna get there because that's what I'm working on, Lord.

But I'm trying to treat you as I did when we were dating.

That's my goal.

Yeah.

And I may not get it right every day.

I mean, there's times when I'm like, if I Got to pick up your socks one more time.

You know, like, we had the argument about the toothbrush that you talked about on Sunday a few weeks ago, which, by the way, I did purchase him a new toothbrush, in case you all were wondering.

It's like trying not to let those things break the familiarity.

Yeah.

And I don't know, say, there.

There could be some people listening right now who are like, man, that's weird.

That was cringy.

Like, she calls her husband pastor.

And.

But here's what actually happens, because there.

What actually happens is it humbles me.

See, when you.

When you honor a good man, that honor produces humility in that man.

In other words, when you call me pastor, it makes me want to be a better pastor.

So, like, a humble person, when.

When you honor somebody who has a level of humility and you're like, I call him my pastor, I'm not sitting here thinking I'm the greatest.

I'm thinking, man, this is serious.

Because when she left the last church, married me, and we launched a church, I have to pastor her, which means I have to get up ahead of her.

I have to lead her.

I need to pray more than her.

I need to fast more than her.

I.

You know, like you.

All you're doing by honoring me is inspiring me to be better.

It's like, I don't want to fail you, and I don't want to prove you wrong.

And I think a lot of people, that's why they become familiars.

He doesn't deserve that.

He.

If I start treating him like that, it's going to get to his head.

He's going to become a narcissist.

I think he already is a narcissist, but it's like, yeah, but you married him.

Where are you that dumb?

Or maybe you're just wrong.

Like, I don't think you probably married a narcissist.

I think right now it's cliche and super popular to diagnose.

Like, some of y' all didn't even pass your psychology class for your humanities requirement of your degree in college, and yet you're prescribing and people left and right.

It's like, you don't even know what narcissism is.

Yeah.

What you're actually calling narcissism is the way your husband reacted to your disrespect.

He's probably not a legitimate narcissist.

Like, clinically diagnosed, and he probably wouldn't be diagnosed.

He's probably just extremely upset because he lives in a world where he just doesn't feel admired or respected, and he's.

And somebody's got to be the redeemer, right?

And I think for me and you, it was like, I.

You know, when you were basically like, I'm gonna call him my pastor.

And then guess what happened?

It didn't make me more egotistical.

It made me more humble.

I'm gonna call him my boss.

It didn't.

I didn't lord it over you.

I was like, man, I've got to treat her right.

She.

And.

Because really, what happens biblically is you re.

You sow, you reap what you sow.

So the thing is, it's like the Bible even says, love your enemies.

So it's like you can't even love your spouse.

But you're supposed to love your enemies.

You're not.

By that definition, are you even a Christian?

Because it's like the Jesus standard for being a Christian was love your enemies, not tolerate, not ignore.

Love them.

Right.

But we can't even love our spouse who's not our enemy.

Matter of fact, you're one in the spirit.

You know, you're one in the flesh, rather.

And so.

Because.

So you're literally hating yourself.

Yeah.

And I think for me, it was like, we started to go on this journey of discovery, and we're gonna.

We're gonna leave it on a cliffhanger because we're getting into some stuff right now.

But I would just end on this, and I'll give you the final word.

You know, we came a long way together, and this is what men and women really want.

We're still figuring.

Figuring it out.

Do you feel secure now?

I feel secure, but also say, like, we're getting better right in front of you, you know, right in front of you guys.

Like, we're getting better every day.

And I hope that when I watch this video in 5 years and 10 years, I'm like, oh, man, girl, you've come a long way.

Because I know I've come a long way 20 years ago, for sure.

And I don't ever want to just put my feet on the coffee table and be like, our marriage is good enough.

Like, I want to get a little bit better every single year.

That's my goal, you know?

And so I feel respected, I feel loved, I feel cherished.