151. Men Who Feel God: The Seer Gift, Righteous Desire & Holy Emotion

0:01 In this episode of What the Prophets Say, join me, Emma Stark, Jonah Wilson, and Matt Johnson as we dive into what is it like to be a seer, emotionally led by the spirit prophet, particularly when you're a man in a world that doesn't like righteous desire. Hello, loyal listeners, and a very warm welcome to another episode of What the Prophets Say with me, Emma Stark. I am joined in the studio once again by... That wasn't very tuneful. Wow. What an entrance, Jonah. What an entrance. A lovely tune. Emma always comes on these What the Prophets Say and does a little song for most guests, doesn't she? Hang on, I've got to try again. Is that better? I don't know.

0:52 We'll take it. You'll take it. Jonah Wilson, Matt Johnson, welcome back. How are you? Wonderful, thank you. So our American, our English and our Irish, who's very good at making potatoes, reference previous broadcast. But Geordie, do the Geordie in Newcastle want to be their own nation, Matt? I don't think so, actually. I think we're quite content being Northern. We probably don't want to be Southern or that part of England. Here we are. Oh, very much so. If you guys make an intentional effort to let me know, I am from the North. Oh, yes, absolutely. We love the Scottish, but anyone from any further than York, it's like... Yeah, it's very aware. Bless them. Bless them, you know. Our cultural and geographical idiosyncrasies are now fully on display. But actually we just, we released that because we're prophets. We have to be apolitical. You're dead right. You are dead right. Although I would like to say that you likened me to Mrs. Doubtfire a minute ago.

1:57 Robin Williams in costume. But please tell me I look and sound nothing like Mrs Doubtfire. Heck no. I think it says in our contract, Jonah, that we can't speak on behalf of this. So yes, no, Emma, you sound and look nothing like Mrs Doubtfire. Thanks. I don't know how I got like into that. But anyway, I hope it's not a comment on my age. No, but to be fair, Becca, every time I try to do the Newcastle accent, I try to mock her and she's like, you make me sound like Mary Poppins every single time you do my accent. I was like, and what's wrong with Mary Poppins? A spoonful of sugar, house of medicine. Sorry, sorry. Moving on to something spiritual very fast before you and I break into a standard set of musicals. The joy of working with Jonah is that you know all the words to most of the musicals that I know the words. too so it's a Matt you've not joined in how's your singing voice absolutely terrible however give me a Disney playlist Sarah goes crazy she's like why do we have to listen to Disney for three hours in the car and I'm like every Disney song is amazing sing us your favourite come on it has to be Hercules and I can go the distance every millennial man absolutely you know every millennial man He has that song.

3:21 I can be who I want to be. That's me. It's me. I can go the distance. You know what makes it even more magical? When you are in front of the castle, Magic Kingdom, happily ever after, and they pop Hercules on the castle and you're just like, I feel like I'm a man. Ladies and gentlemen, you have officially entered the Twilight Zone. And I don't know what to say to you. So, guys, these. gentlemen to my left are anointed men of God. And they are, you're both in your 20s. Yep. And coming up to some bigger birthdays. And we're scheming. In fact, we have, I think, Sam's turning 30. You are turning 30. You're 30 soon. And then I'll be 30. You'll be 30. I'm turning 50. David's turning 50. We're all hitting our big birthdays. And lots of celebration. But what we hit kind of privately that we want to bring to you today is particularly to talk to them as men, if that's permitted. I know we get very scared about the kind of misappropriating roles and responsibilities. But we're going to go there in that in Scripture, if I can set the scene and then I'm going to kick the ball to their feet to pass. Trying to put in a soccer analogy. Sorry. Suzanne's giving you a thumbs up. Is she for a soccer analogy? We're covering

4:54 all our favourites, soccer and musicals. There are three types of prophets in Scripture, but the two that we want to talk about particularly today is the Nabi, N -A -B -I. That's just the Old Testament Hebrew word for a certain category of prophet. And they are the wordsmiths. They bubble up with language. It's very much about, and the Spirit of the Lord says, and it's a word that is given. It's a gush of spoken or sung revelation. I predominantly manifest like that when the Spirit of God moves in me in the public space. It sounds quite authoritative. It fills the room, that nabby flow with the sense of the word of the Lord or the command of the Lord or the direction of the Lord. And it sometimes, you know, because it comes from me in female form, there's an awful lot of critique of, you know, harsh or masculine. Whereas if a man did it, it would seem, you know, like a thing to be celebrated because it's very direct in orientation.

6:09 So you two gentlemen. are dominantly not that, though you can become that if you need to and you do dip in and out of that as required, but you two have a very definite preference and calling of the Lord to sit under the anointing of the seer prophet. And that is a couple of different words in Scripture. They are not nabi. It's not linked to that word, but it is linked to the sight, perception, emotion, sensory. uh connection with god the sense of i felt i saw and rather than i heard and i spoke It is my emotions were subjected to the emotions of the weight of how God felt. I was overwhelmed in visionary state and I was in an ecstatic state of the possession of the spirit. And sometimes that feels almost a little bit more feminized because it's a communication that is usually I felt, I saw. I sensed and it is quite deeply emotionally orientated and given scent from the Lord so that you burden bear his emotional status with him in that. And that is not unusual, but in some senses it is. thought

7:40 of as quite feminized forms, and yet you're sitting here as true, courageous men of God who live in that way before the Lord, lives laid down, but very much warrior men living within the emotions of God. And sometimes you get the criticism in reverse that I get. of like, well, you know, should you not be looking more, I don't know, male in how you deliver a prophetic word. And yet you are reflections of the heart of God. Now we can all do both. I have watched you guys nabby and you've watched me seer in my delivery of words. So we train in. GPA, just to be able to steer revelation in, to be perfectly honest, however God wants it to be disseminated. But I want to spend this episode that we have together in asking you what it is like to sit in that role. as if I can say men in their 20s, young men, you're not quite in middle age. David and I are very definitely both feet now in middle age, although David assuredly tells me that 49 is not yet middle age, but perimenopause tells me differently. And the joy of our ages and stages.

9:10 But you guys have made some choices to not shirk. or hide away from that particular expression of God, the God who is jealous, the God who weeps, the God who feels about his own very deeply, the God of pursuit, the God of desire, the God of Romans 8, where his spirit groans, the God who gives to both Ezekiel, Daniel, and... John, Isaiah also, and others in Scripture, a strong sight gift who coaches Jeremiah. What do you see, Jeremiah? And Jeremiah in chapter one is schooled by the Lord in a sight gift. So as I set the framework for particularly, not just the sight, because the sight maybe is too easy, but the full breadth of what seer in Scripture represents, the rah, where the word is rah, R -A -A -H in its English transliteration, of a very all -encompassing possession of all that you are in a sensory way by the Spirit of God that he might put revelation and impress revelation on you from the inside out. Can you talk, let's go to early years before we go to the adult ascent to that call. Who wants to start? What is it like to know that you are feeling deeply? Yeah, I think for me, one of my earliest, certainly

10:43 earliest memories is probably when I'm roughly around 16 and I'm really trying to push in for a relationship with Jesus. And there's this whole sense of the... the church culture in England where, oh, why are you doing that? Is that not a little bit sissy? That was the word that was used at the time, given it was years ago. Why would you want to push in further? And I really started to retreat and there was something in me one day, I had a dream and the Lord had just said, go out, take a bag and go and give, you're going to meet someone on the street, give them some clothes. I thought, I've got no idea where I'm going. Why would I do this? I'm 16 and my parents gracefully was like, go for it, you'll be fine. And I'm walking in the street and I see an angel and he says, follow me this way.

11:46 And we go down this road and I meet this guy who needs some clothes. He has an encounter with Jesus. He then gives his life to Jesus, starts attending the church. blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, all this great stuff. And I felt the pull then of, do I retreat and go back into myself and go, actually, even though the Lord had pressed this, like you said, Emma, this sense that really bubbled up and rushed out. Do I retreat back and go, actually, I don't want that. And I feel like sometimes as men, we can. um hide away from those feelings and go let's lean into the more masculine which is oh no I hear from the Lord quietly and um contemplatively yes absolutely almost sedate yeah yeah yeah and I think for me um very similarly I think when I started on my journey um it was probably seven or eight that I recognize some level of I'm a dreamer.

12:54 It started in dreams. So it's the Lord's taking me into heaven. He's showing me heaven. I'm having encounters with God himself. He's handing me things in heaven. That was kind of the realm. And my mom really empowered me in that and was like, tell me more about the dreams that you're having. But I think it's right around that puberty, adolescence age, that 12, 13, 14. No one said anything to me. No one even had that language of don't be a sissy. But I think just culture shuts down naturally the sense of men feeling. So because your feeling is then shut down, that also then shuts down your ability to see in the spirit. Yeah. Okay. Is any of that? a fear of feeling the wrong thing and not wanting unrighteous desires? So you neuter old desire? Yes, I think so. I think, speaking very honestly, there was confusion for me growing up. So I'm then sat in a, oh, well, people are saying these things.

14:01 So maybe the unrighteous desire. is something that is my portion. And I think it's obviously a lie. And because you're bold enough to step out and say, I am feeling things and seeing things in the spirit, the enemy very quickly wants to try and shut that down through usually friends, sometimes family members, through very, very harsh, very cold comments. Don't know if you had a... Yeah, it's interesting. I think it's interlaced. I think there's definitely a piece of that with the unrighteous desire. I think the other piece for me was. There is a sense of because of my background and because of family job losses and being constantly kind of in a state of fight or flight that you don't realize as a kid. But there's a sense of just stuff everything down. Don't feel. And so when you do that at a young age, you're also then stuffing the gift.

15:01 And it really wasn't until I started doing the deliverance, the inner healing, recognizing, wow, I've hindered my emotions. I've hindered my ability to. like let's start with just even the ability for a guy to cry and cry over something. When you suppress that, then because you're suppressing your own ability to feel, you're also, there's no way that you can feel God's emotions. You've just suppressed it all. And so then there's the sense, like you said, you go into contemplation. Oh, I can read God what he's saying in scripture. But even the ability for me, I would say, to say the words, I hear God's voice. That was probably all shut down until probably my, well, since until 2019. So I was 21, 22. Wow. That's how long from 12 until 21, 22. I think even worship though. Yeah, absolutely. And that's something I love about the culture here. Like I love that our young people are sold, so sold out for worshiping the Lord. Growing up in my background, worship was so hindered. So if you even follow David's example of being sold out, heart after God's heart, all of that. Dancing before the Lord.

16:16 Dancing before, like undignified. That was seen as, why are you doing that? You should almost, and it comes back to that lie, you should be seen and not heard. That was something spoken very much over. I think what interests me about your story, Matt, is that you were a rugby player and that of all of the sports within the United Kingdom context, the British Isles is seen as perhaps the most male, if that's the right word. It's actually quite a brave sport, a very dangerous sport. I mean, I know they've cleaned it up a little bit with a bit more safety rules around concussion, but injury and... and it doesn't have that soccer feeling of people who roll around the floor at the slightest tackle. It has a man's man feel about it. Talk to me about what it's like to sit in that place where... you're actually highly achieving in something that is seen as very masculine. And then at the same time, the Lord is pulling you into, I want you to know me and I want to overwhelm you with my presence.

17:32 And I want you to be one who is a representation of my heart. What's that like? Yeah. it honestly it felt at the time like i was living a double life um almost like i can have this very male very masculine rugby portion and no one could know about the relationship with god so what i'm then doing is dwarfing that so the lord isn't able to move at all really until he has my full yes but trying to merge them both into the same person. Effectively, what I was doing is splitting myself and not being a whole person. And that's quite hard, especially as a teenager. And I see so many young people now and my heart is absolutely for the young men of the next generation to not feel like they can't be who the Lord has made them to be. they should be able to feel and we should champion that as men. I would have loved for a guy my age to come to someone, say you're Samuel's age, Emma, and go, you're doing a great job. I wish I was as bold or as brave as you.

18:49 And maybe we were in some ways because we had to start to break out and we looked to see what happened 100 years ago and even the transition then, it's massive compared to... you know, men, I'm talking about men. And the trajectory of how we are now becoming more accepted of these are my emotions. God gave me them. God clearly has emotion. How do we then steward them properly? And I think that needs to be the question where we really start to draw out for young guys, how do you steward that emotion properly? It's a great emotion to feel, to see, and all of that golden stuff. What do we do as the slightly older generation to go to the younger generation, come up higher, come up higher? Yeah. I think the other piece too is because the church, I'm talking capital C church at this point. Yes, in the broader sense. Did not have a, for a long time, a value in feeling God. in the art of God, like that God loves the arts, that God loves creativity.

20:02 Because there's that gap. I even had a friend who was in high school, never struggled with any sort of same -sex attraction, but simply because he was creative, simply because he had a Davidic call in his life and was very expressive, that label is then applied. Like there's only, you must be. Something must be wrong with you. And he went through confusion, not because he ever struggled with that. He never he always liked females, but simply because that label was then put on him. He then started to be like, well, am I? I must be because this is what's being told. This is what the this is what they're telling me. And because the church did not have a place for someone who. tends to be more air quote theater kid loves music loves the arts encounters god can see god through that you now are like struggling and i think that's what creates even attention and your ability like where is my home where is my safe place within the body of christ and i think there's there is such a power in in our words in the power and what we are decreeing over people and something something like well you're a sissy or oh well you you must be gay because you you feel and you're creative that is such a curse such a curse and how many times are we hearing that over a generation right that now we have men that quite honestly don't know how to be men because we think, oh, well,

21:36 it must be by this example, but where we've only got one portion because we've only been preached one portion from Scripture from other, not all men, but other older men, older ministers that have only preached a very narrow -minded view of the Bible and who God is. And a very Western mindset, because if we go back to Scripture, we go back to the Old Testament. We're looking at seers, primarily actually men. Yeah, that is true. They're mainly men. They're mainly men feeling. But if you look at, we cannot look at Christianity. We cannot look at Jewish roots, which is what our faith is based in. Jesus is a Jewish man from a lens. That is a Greco -Roman Western view. Eastern view was the mystery of God. Eastern view was the feeling of God. Eastern view that Judaism and Christianity stems from was very much, I'm feeling God. I'm in God. And we were even talking about this before we started the broadcast, or maybe it was the previous broadcast, of what does it mean to be in God? When was the last time a man had a conversation and said, hey are you in god today what does it look like to feel him what have you when you woke up this morning what was it like to be in him the the the new testament concept of i have put on christ yes yeah yes i am inside that yeah i am one with the spirit of god that kind of concept There's

23:07 several kind of thoughts buzzing around my head. I do want you to be able to give some top tips to even our male listeners, even the women who are raising men, but the sense of what is helpful to say and what do we bless. I'll just tell you a kind of personal thing and see if I need to edit this out because it's about my children. I am parenting some extreme children. And you're smiling because you know them all. I mean, in all of their unique ways. And some of their friends are very extreme too. And I saw them on social media. We didn't capture it, but somebody else in another organization captured one of my children and their friends. in a very high -octane worship environment and they are going for it. And both of them that are in my care, one my flesh and blood, one not, but in my care, are weeping before the Lord. And to me, it's beautiful. To me, I'm watching them on the social media set an example, one girl, one boy in this situation, and they are whoring themselves out. And it's such a laid

24:40 down, generous, Davidic expression of he, God, is wonderful. And the I will not hold back. And my initial thought of watching another ministry's social media capture them was, A sense of right maternal pride of I'm so glad that those in my care, male and female, flesh and non -flesh, in another city are living this extravagant life before the Lord. And I felt, and I'm texting them, I'm so proud of you. Jesus is all over you. I bless this expression. And then in the private moment, I thought. Oh, oh, oh, you're about to get criticism for this. You're about to get a behind the scenes criticism. for your extravagance before the Lord. And I knew it by the word of the Lord. And I thought, do I get on the phone? Do I not get on the phone? Do I warn them? How do I pray? Where everything that I want for them, wild pioneering, wild expression, is about to be critiqued by their peers. And

26:13 so I left it. This is a very personal story. One of them phones me and I has a dream and God's already warned them. Thank the Lord. And I hear myself saying this. You're a pioneer. but you're a pioneer in emotions for a generation. You are called to pioneer generosity displayed to the Lord, you and your friends. And as men and women, because these guys are a bit older, in their early 20s, you are supposed to wail, weep, dance, shout. feel what he feels over cities and people groups. And you are a gift. And I heard myself say this. Your emotions are a gift. They are a gift to a generation to not have to hide so that you accidentally develop. unrighteous desire because the church does not let out righteous desire. So you don't know what to do with what you feel. And suddenly pornography is more acceptable than the extremes before your God. So I'm going to bless you as a pioneer. And I'm going to say this to you as the parent in your life and as the Christian leader in your life, though there's

27:43 other clergy and other places around who we bless. I'm going to say this to you. The pioneer will always be, oh, that's a bit too much. That's a bit too much. We must learn to say thank you, Jesus, for the pioneers. Thank you, Jesus, that you give us those who make us think. What about that? And I felt this, perhaps the frustration of the years of my life, come in the conversation with my own children. Where is the voice that says hallelujah for a provocation? Finally. Finally.

28:26 For a people who will go, he's worthy. And I saw him and I met him and I encountered him and he spoke to me and I wailed before him. Where are those who will say in leadership today, Thank you, Jesus, that you gave us those who will do that for us. And I find myself saying to my children what I wished somebody had said to me, what I say to you as also those in my care. Thank the Lord for what you provoke in the body of Christ.

29:08 Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I think as you're speaking, this gets back to some of the other pet peeves, I would say, of us. And that when we say the words, we want revival, we want revival, what we're really sometimes saying is we want sameness. We want to go back to the good old days in the 1970s and the Billy Graham crusades. But the reality is we're in a season and an epoch of glory to glory. And if we had Jesus come again the same old way, we'd have the same old problem because we're not being converted into a new level of glory. And the reality is when you say, I want revival, are you creating an atmosphere?

29:53 Are you creating a surrounding space that invites your next generation, your kids and your grandkids to be able to capture the essence of where God wants to take them into the heart of God, into feeling him? into seeing him, into saying on earth as it is in heaven? Or do you just want, at the end of the day, Christian nationalism where we just have air quote righteousness, but we don't have hearts that have actually been turned? I want to ask you guys to give top tips. It doesn't matter whether people are your age or, you know, whether they're male or female. What top tips? that you wish somebody had said to you that are those permission -giving things.

30:39 And as your brains whirl, for me, it's the sense that if you have nobody in your life that says, don't you dare retreat, let me be the one that says that to you. We need the fullness of how God leads you. of how God speaks to you, of how you encounter him. We need that as a provocation in the earth to remember that he's worth encountering, that he desires a people who will come and meet him heart to heart, that he might lead them glory to glory, for he is a God. of encounter he's a god whose great command is that he leaves the spirit that we might be commanded not to read about him but to fellowship with him not just to manifest his gifts but to fellowship with him not just to speak in tongues but to fellowship with him are you hearing that when the word of the lord you know talks about me that may the love of god yeah And the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the fellowship of the Spirit be with you all now and evermore. That great grace that we're asked to bring, that it is not that we neuter the Spirit on the earth into his gifts or his fruit, but that the highest accolade or the highest command, the highest call there for the portion of the Godhead who is the Spirit,

32:10 is that you are in fellowship with him. So go be in fellowship. with them and go and show that that is not hysterical it's biblical and we here in this classical context want to bless you to remember your call and if everybody else says oh I'm not sure about that let us be the ones who say that is needed and that your provocation is where your well done is top tips gentlemen I think one thing I would want to say to everyone listening is that, yes, we are fighting for you now. And you can see us on your screens right now or you can hear us in your ears. But also, if you have eyes to see, you will see that heaven is around and about you. They are fighting for you. And it is not just you. And even though you may feel alone and isolated, get around people like these guys to my right who will champion you. And that would be one of my main top tips.

33:16 Find people that are like minded and do not settle for people that are less. I believe that an equally yoked thing is scripture in the Bible. is not just for relationships as in man and wife, but also for good relationships. So find good relationships and don't stop fighting for that. That is such a precious thing, friends, where as soon as you find that and you have your people, you can go deeper. You know what it says where two or three are gathered together. Being gathered together means living with each other or not living with, but... living in an amount amongst each other where you're rubbing up against each other, iron sharpening iron. Don't settle for any less of a relationship than that. And also another tip for me is find leaders that worship and worship undignified. And a shout out to David and Emma.

34:23 David Stark is a man that... will worship the Lord no matter where he is, no matter what church setting. And that is so encouraging for any man, any woman, or any person looking going, am I going to look like a fool? Or no, my leader's already undignified because he wants to be so like the Lord. I mean, we have great leaders. So that would be another top tip. Absolutely. Yeah. I think a couple of things that I think, especially with the seer gift, number one, and I'm going to speak Gen Z language with this, do not gaslight your own discernment. It starts there. We have to start in the place of there's so many times, so many examples where you go into an atmosphere, you feel something that is discernment from the Lord. You say it can't be true. It can't be true. It can't be true. And you gaslit your own discernment. I'm speaking to myself here because even in here, there's moments. And at the same time, you pair that, though. This is the tension of Scripture. You pair discernment. with still assuming the best until proven otherwise. And that is a hard lesson.

35:35 You have to learn that of, I'm feeling this in the atmosphere. I'm feeling accusation, or I'm feeling Leviathan in the atmosphere, or maybe even using feeling is too much for you. Maybe you're seeing something. You're like, I see anger in the atmosphere, but no, I'm not going to partner with that. What you need to do is first start and say, okay, I'm feeling this, or I'm seeing this, or I'm discerning this. Whichever language best suits you, listener and viewer, start there and then take it to the Lord and say, Lord, why? What am I feeling? Am I feeling myself? Is there something that I need to deal with with you? Or am I feeling your heart? And then from that place, there's three keys that one of my friends that used to love me taught me, which is belief awareness and guarding your heart so first step into belief i believe i can encounter god come on yeah from that place of belief every day i have an opportunity to encounter him every moment okay now that i believe just simple belief and faith let me become aware where is jesus in the room where is the spirits in the room where is the angelic as i'm driving my car oh i I think I see a principality there, but I see God's angel here, and I see this angel warring against this.

36:55 I see this messenger. Now I'm stepping into the awareness. And if you're wrestling where you can't see, you're not discerning, the third piece is the guarding your heart. How are you creating systems and rhythms of rest, protecting yourself so that you're walking in righteousness and keeping short accounts, walking in purity? Guarding your heart also includes being in your scripture, being in your word. But then also you need to get a notebook and you need to be writing down what you're hearing from God. Sometimes that's a simple one -liner and he says, this is what you're dealing with in the atmosphere. And you're just getting that one -liner and you're writing it down. But sometimes it's a novel and you don't know until you just start to write out, this is what I'm seeing. And then you're asking the questions. Why am I seeing this? Who is this addressed to? Okay, why am I seeing this thing swirl around Emma? Lord, what is that thing swirling around Emma? What do I need to do with that?

37:48 Do I need to let her know of it? Do I need to talk to her intercessors? And you're starting to engage now with God, with the heavenly hosts now, where you're starting to partner with the Holy Spirit. And that's where I would say that you can start to step into deeper levels of being a seer. Very good. Gentlemen, you have richly blessed our audience today. Thank you very much. And I'm full of ideas in terms of programs for the next generation. I think you guys need to put your heads together to run. But anyway, thank you very much, loyal listeners, for joining us for this episode of What the Prophets Say. Hello, friends. I've got something exciting to share with you. If you want to reach out and grab hold of our hands so that we can take you to the next level, you need to download our Power TV app today. Go to PowerTV .app and we have there exclusively...

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