(177) “Ordinarily Walking in the Supernatural” with Michael and Gordona Van Vlymen

0:00 regardless of what miraculous event, what's going on, how fun it is, any of that takes a second place to the fact that the things that we do we must do for the glory of God, for His Kingdom, and at His direction. We only do those things that we see the Father do. God promises in Joel 2.28 to pour out His Spirit on all humanity. Welcome to Global Outpouring, where we contend for that promise outpouring, we equip for that outpouring, so that we may engage in that very outpouring. I'm Philip Buss.

0:43 And I'm Sharon Buss. Welcome to the podcast today. We have with us some dear friends Michael and Gordana van Vleimen. And Michael has been with us before on our podcast a couple of times, and Gordana is with us for the first time. And they are going to tell us some of their testimonies of how they are ordinarily walking the supernatural. Welcome to the podcast today. We are so glad that you are with us. You are going to really enjoy this podcast. These people that are with us are just, well, they're just very, very special to us and to the Lord, and they're going to be special to you too because of how God is going to use them in your life to help you get a fresh vision and hope for what God wants to do with you as an individual. But before we get started, I'd like to encourage you to go to our website, globaloutpouring.net, and be sure that if you haven't already done so, that you will subscribe to our newsletter, our email lists, and so that we can stay in touch with you and keep you up to date on what we're doing and what God is doing in this ministry. And you can also get connected with us for how we are contending in prayer for the things of God and for him to pour out his Spirit on all humanity and get involved with the way that we're

2:14 equipping people and all of our Facebook page and our YouTube channel. So we want you to get better connected. We want to get to know you better too. So if you want to send us some feedback, you can write to feedback at globaloutpouring.org or you can fill out the little feedback form on globaloutpouring.net. So Michael and Gordana van Vleimen, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you for having us here. We're blessed. Thank you. It's an honor to be here with you. Well, you've just been with us teaching in the School of the Supernatural Translation by Faith with Dr. Bruce Allen and his wife Reshma. And we've had such a glorious time. Wow, it was glorious.

3:01 And a lot of folks came in and got trained in lots of things of the Spirit and learning how to walk in the Spirit and how to discern what's right and what's biblical and what's real from what isn't. And wow, you've walked in a whole lot of that stuff yourselves. But I'd like to go back and get your backstory a little bit. So how did you grow up? Well, yeah, so I grew up a great distance from where we are right now. That's for sure. The church that I grew up in, we didn't believe God did miracles anymore. We were taught, well, for instance, when I first learned about Jesus and asked Jesus to come into my heart as a five-year-old, I was excited because our Sunday school teacher told us about David and Goliath, Daniel in the lion's den, angels coming to visit the believers. And just this life just seemed so adventurous that I was excited. So I would tell all the kids at school about Jesus. But in our church, eventually they gave me the bad news when I was about eight that, oh, I'm sorry, you can't have that kind of life. God doesn't do those things anymore. No miracles, no angels, no prophets, no joy. Just basically everything you read about in

4:32 the Bible was more or less a history lesson, although they did teach us that God is real. But it seemed like a very, it seemed like a bait and switch to me. So then what happened in your heart? Well, in my heart, I just lost all joy to believe that I could have a relationship with God because my idea of relationship was based on the stories I had been told. This is what God has done. This is what God has done. And I thought, great, I'd like to be a part of that. But when they said, you can no longer be a part, all of the joy of the journey was, was like taken, stolen away from me in that moment. And so I just quit telling the kids about Jesus.

5:16 If I thought, if I can't really be a part of it, then why would I be excited about it? Yeah. So I just kind of went, even though my dad was a pastor at the time, he was a pastor of a dead church. So I just lost all joy towards the things of God and just kind of became like a regular kid that had to go to church a few times a week. It was a bad situation because I think back on that and I think if they had encouraged me in my walk with the Lord, how things would be different. But I know God lays things out for a reason and he makes all things to work together for good. Right. So he actually gave you a foundation for the church.

6:05 That would help you to help people that have that kind of foundation. That's yes, that's absolutely true. There's so many people that they start that way that now I have that foundation of how to get over that and a testimony similar to so many people. So it has worked out pretty well. Yeah. So, so Gordana, how about you? What, what was your life like as a child? You grew up in Macedonia. I grew up in Macedonia, Eastern Orthodox and I went to church literally probably four or five times a day. Four or five times a day. Yes. So what did you do in church four or five times a day? I would go in church and I would go in there and just pray whatever the need before going to school.

6:50 I would always go if I knew that we had a test or something. You had a break, you go back, you go to church or after, after school, you, when you stop, you went out to the store and you go to church again. That was me. It just literally, I knew they would help me. I would go in there and pray to God, but keep it in mind, even though we went to church, my mom brought us up to fear God. Also took us to church. We did all the rituals, the fasting, the whatever you had to do to go to church, but I had no knowledge. I knew nothing about the Trinity, even though the icons are there, you know, nobody, we didn't have a Bible. So I wasn't brought up with the Bible. The things that I did, whatever the priest would tell my mom or whatever tradition she had to follow, we did the same thing. So I never opened the Bible to literally till I married with Mike. So going to church and I knew there was a God that he was up there somewhere, but that's all I knew. Did you love him? Yes, I loved him, but I also fear them if I did something wrong and I always knew that he would help me. So even though a lot of the people, pretty much everyone prays to Mary or the icons, they have different saints. Okay. So what, explain what's an icon? Cause a lot of people don't know that. Literally now being born again, I look back and I see they display the whole Bible, the Old

8:22 Testament and New Testament is through the icons. It's pictures, right? It's a picture or they have a lot of the paintings on the walls. Yeah. And wasn't that for illiterate people to be able to show the Bible stories? Literally, like I said, pretty much people, they did whatever the priest would tell them to do. Even though you have these icons that we're talking small, huge icons brought from all over. I would go in there just to pray to God. I never prayed to any of the saints. So all I can say is God must have had his hand upon me. Yes, he did. He did. So a picture of a saint and an icon would have like a, some kind of a metal kind of thing around it. Is that typical? It depends.

9:07 You can just get a plain piece of wood, the icon, just a picture of the Lord or the last supper. I think I saw one in the house that they had. And have a halo around many of the saints too. Yes. Pretty much every saint you can think of from old to new and people, a lot of times they're named after some of the saints and they usually have a celebration. We celebrate birthday a lot, but they celebrate every name of a saint. So they literally, I mean, celebrating. So whatever day you're born on that there was a saint for that day. Yes. Yes. My name has no meaning as far as of a saint. My mom, my brother, the rest of them, but not mine. They named me after one of their friends there, Dr. Dinta's friend. So yeah. So then you came to America. How old were you when you came to America? I was 15 when I came, spoke no English at all. Went to high school.

10:09 So there you could walk. So I went to church. That was my life. But here you had to drive and I didn't speak the language and going to school, even though after I learned to drive, we didn't go to church, maybe just for Easter or Christmas. That was it. So church was kind of like in the back. I knew there was a God and I was at the hunger, but my life changed drastically. When I got married, because I told the Lord, I said, I want to marry someone who knows you. I had no idea what I was saying. I was someone who knows you, who loves you. So when I met Mike and we got married and he kept talking about Jesus and I would say, you're crazy. I don't know what you're talking about. I know God. He helped me because I didn't know the language helped me finish high school, helped me go to college for hair. And thank God he never stopped.

11:06 He just kept talking about Jesus. Like keeping in mind, you know, the icons were there, but I never ever heard anybody explain or tell me about it. One day, 1986 in our backyard, I remember after Mike keep talking about Jesus, the Holy Spirit that just came upon me and gave me that revelation of the Trinity. It's like a curtain was removed, the blindness off of my hearing, my understanding. And I knew about the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit. That's when the Holy Spirit became my best friend. And I used to think that God, you know, you go to church and you fear, you go inside the church, you know, like I never cursed none of that stuff, but you don't do anything bad, you know, like smoking, drinking, none of that stuff, because she thought that God lived in a building. I never knew he lived inside of you. I didn't know that I was the temple. So when the Holy Spirit showed me that I was the temple and he lived inside of me, oh my goodness gracious.

12:12 Yes. What a revelation. He became my everything, everything in my life changed forever, forever. Wow. Yeah. Wow. So thank God for Mike. Amen. So Mike, at some point you had to have had a shift from that unhappy boy that found out you couldn't do things and God did something in your life to show you that he was real. That's true. That's true. I did come to that point. It wasn't at the first part of our marriage, however, but I knew that even though I was told that God was not supernatural anymore, I knew that that was the truth, that he existed. So I knew that Jesus died for our sins. I knew that even though I was told that God doesn't do the miraculous anymore. So when I was talking to Gordonna during this period, I knew that she had a fear of God, that she loved God, but I wanted her to realize that there was more about having a relationship with Jesus. That's why I kept talking to her about Jesus. I wanted her to get it. I believe the Holy Spirit, like she said, the Holy Spirit gave revelation. I mean, I kept talking about it, but it's not like I was going to talk her into it. God had to give the revelation. Yeah. So you were already back with God when you met Gordonna? I wouldn't call it back with God at that point. Oh, okay. What's the timeline here?

13:45 Well, this was probably when we were in our early 20s, or around 24, 25 years old, when we connected and when we got married in 1986. So I knew about God. My father was a preacher. We had been a missionary family. So I knew the reality of all of that. And I wanted her to know that because I knew that you had to be born again. Okay. Not just know about God, but you had to be born again. That's why I kept talking to her about it. But I still had a lot of problems because I didn't really follow God because I was told years before, God doesn't do miracles. You can't be like a David or an Elijah or an Enoch or any of those Bible heroes, Thomas or Philip. You can't be like those guys. So I really didn't pursue God. I didn't want to just have a religious life.

14:46 It just seemed just very lame to me. And so what happened was because I wasn't seeking God, and I was just kind of in the world going through the motions, maybe going to church once in a while, my mind was captivated by the enemy. And so as I began to think about sinful things, I could not keep those sinful thoughts at bay. So it just, it was overwhelming to me that this could even happen. I'm thinking, I don't want to think these thoughts. I don't want to think these thoughts, I don't want to think these thoughts, but they would come anyway. And there was nothing I could do about it. I knew I couldn't pray because God doesn't do miracles today. Oh no. Yeah. So that left me in a bad spot. I should say. I got to the point where I thought, I had this voice telling me, there is no hope. You should end your life. There is no hope. You should end your life.

15:47 And I'm thinking, well, you know, that makes sense. There is no hope. God doesn't do miracles. But I thought on the off chance that he does, I'm going to ask him anyway. And so I said, God, if you're real, because I hadn't seen the reality of God, that I was told he doesn't do anything anymore. So I hadn't seen his power or his hand move in the lives of people around me. So I said, God, if you're real, send an angel or a prophet or do something to rescue me. And I prayed that for three days. And on the morning of the third day, I was working at a people's house, Christian family's house, when they had a guest that drove up from Georgia.

16:34 The Lord had told a friend of theirs to drive up from Georgia to visit their friends in Indiana, where I lived at the time. So he did. And through that meeting of that person is where I learned that God still does everything he ever did. The Lord sent someone to pray for me. And when I met this guy, I absolutely hated him. I mean, or something inside me hated him. But he just kept talking to me and talking to me and talking to me about Jesus. And that really didn't do it for me. But then he had four words of knowledge. And he told me exactly what was going on in my life.

17:19 And he said, right now, there's a spirit of suicide telling you, end it, there is no hope. And that was exactly what I was hearing. And so he told me that the Lord told him to pray for me. So he prayed for me three hours a day for a week. And, you know, I thought later I learned what kind of love do people have that they're willing to pray for a stranger until they receive the breakthrough. But I mean, I learned a lot just through that deliverance I received, because I realized the reality of spiritual things, the reality of the spirit realm, but the reality that believers are meant to walk in a miraculous life. Hallelujah. So were you already married at that point?

18:08 We were. Yeah, we recently married. Yes. Okay. So Gordana, you saw a change. I did, but I didn't know he was dealing with all this stuff. Okay. So he's going through that. And at the same time, I'm like on fire for the Lord. I'm just in the Bible. Mike got me a Bible and I'm just devouring the Word of God because I never had a Bible. So I'm reading all this stuff and I just, I had the solution for the whole world, you know, I had my treasure, the prize is like, we give, I give everything up. Wow. That my life started the new journey.

18:48 Can I share the first person that came? Because soon as I found out that he lives in me, that I'm his temple, things that was important, you know, it meant nothing to me. And I just started, I would watch ministry. I watched Dr. Lester Summer, I've been here and they were my spiritual fathers to help me to walk in because I didn't have anyone to, I didn't have a pastor, you know, like you guys said, you were brought up with the Bible. I wasn't. So I started writing checks to different ministry. I just give it all away and I never even had to ask Mike. And then a guy comes and knock on the door. He gives me a scripture. He just, and I went open the door.

19:32 He gave me, and there was a piece of paper open that inside that said Philippians 419. The first thing, and he left. I believe that was an angel because the guy didn't know me. He didn't know what I was doing. Wow. So it was like a confirmation, but yes, that, that was my new beginning of life. And I just shared with everyone. I was, I was mocked by most of the family, all the family and, um, France, you lose, you know, but if I get to do it again, it's worth it because through that painful time of losing, you know, families and friends, that's when I got to know him so well. Like I said, the Holy spirit became my best friend.

20:21 He would walk me through when I would read the word. If I had trouble, he would comfort me, give me scriptures. He would tell me which person was coming, which demon was coming with them. I would go to the store, anything that I needed help, you know, whatever I wanted to go, even to stores to tell me keep best prices or where to find things. And, uh, it was, I, yes, I would do it again. I will go back and do it again. Wow. So the, the two of you at some point began to really pursue God then, right? Yes. Yes, absolutely. It was, we came onto the same page, even though I really didn't know much, and I don't think we're done a really knew much either, but we did know that God is real. He can do anything. We just need to really pursue him. So Gordana was, she was voracious, a Bible reader, continually in the word, continually sharing Jesus with the people that would come in and around our life. And I also really began to pursue God with a passion because I realized the importance of walking in what God had provided, the miraculous things of God, because it saved my life. And I knew that there must be lots of people that needed to be saved also. So we just, we began pursuing God with a passion at that point. So at some point, you were hearing people talking about the miraculous. Yes, Gordana's friend. Would this happen

21:57 probably because I feel like the first walk, you know, with the Lord knowing him and seeing him being on fire for him. But then something happened to me again in 11, 11, 2011, but that's when we met Kim and she started talking and telling us about supernatural things, about being translated, going places, gold dust and all kinds of stuff in which I never heard that before. I believed in miracles, even being Orthodox and then reading the Bible is like I read about things that the Lord was doing, people being healed and deliver, but I never about to a certain degree, the super, supernatural. And Mike started kind of keeping track things that was happening with my friend because she will get covered with gold dust. When she would share testimonies. Yeah. So she'd be talking about face to face encounters with Jesus or angels coming to deliver messages. And I thought this is, I mean, I knew about deliverance and I knew about authority over evil spirits, but this was something beyond anything that we had experienced and face to face with Jesus sounded a lot better than face to face with some evil spirits. So I would tell Gordana, invite your friend over, let's hear some more testimonies. And really that lit a fire, I think at least it did for me, hearing the testimonies about what God was doing today. Yeah. And it caused us to

23:32 really pursue. So we, we set a course to try and pursue what God was doing, where we would, where we could go, where people were talking about these things, conferences where people would share about God doing the miraculous and it kind of took our, our passion and pursuit to another level, I would think. Yes. So you were going to conferences and going to more conferences and going to more conferences. Yeah. And you heard them talking about the miraculous, but not how to get there. That's it. Exactly. Yes. Then what happened? Well, after several years of, of pursuing in this way, chasing after it, is anybody going to tell us how to get this walk closer to God that we're hearing about? We were watching Sid Ross program one day and the guest happened to be Dr. Bruce Allen.

24:31 And, you know, in the past we'd heard guests and they would tell miraculous stories about being in heaven and face to face with Jesus and things like that. But we would always hope that they would pray a prayer of impartation, which we would come into agreement with. Extend your hand to the television. Yes, extend our hands to the TV. Yeah. So, but this time Dr. Bruce, he told all these wonderful stories, but then he said something very strange. He said, and now I'm going to tell you how this can happen for you. I had never in the several years that we have been seeking, heard anyone say anything even like that. It's like people had the stories, but they didn't have the revelation to get the other person there. Yeah. Or, or if they did, they weren't sharing it. So that's when Dr. Bruce gave a very simple explanation about waiting on the Lord. And that was life changing for me. So after I heard his simple instruction, waiting on the Lord with expectation, looking for God to show you something, I practiced that and I began to do that. And the very first time that I did, I had an encounter, which was terrifying, but it was also real. So I realized, okay, I've never experienced this before. This is kind of terrifying for me, but I had no knowledge

26:02 of spiritual things, the spiritual realm that the, that the realm of heaven is real. Um, had no experiential knowledge of any of it. It was just a story, you know, previously. Yeah. But as I began to wait on the Lord in prayer, then I began to experience his presence. Uh, the very first time that I waited on the Lord, as Dr. Bruce described it on that television program, uh, 45 minutes into waiting on the Lord, I had an encounter where I was, where I was taken into the spirit realm with an angel in front of me. And it was terrifying at first, but it was terrifying at first, but I realized the reason it's terrifying is because I don't know anything about it. I've never experienced this before. I mean, let's face it, you grow up in kind of a dead church. You don't even feel God's presence. It's like during, you can't even call it a worship service. We're all going to sing hymn number 305. Right. And as soon as we get through with that, then we're going to do this or that. It's just, there was no, you know, presence of God, please fall upon us. So I had no grid. Wow. So, so Gordana, at what point did you start to have this kind of experience? Well, uh, my life changed in 11, 11, 2011. We went to a conference because before that, even though my first walk with the Lord, you know, experience and knowing that he lived inside of me, I have to know, because a lot of people think God lives in a building.

27:37 So knowing that and experiencing seeing a lot of the healing is in different things in the glory cloud, but reading in the Bible and seeing this more stuff happen and, you know, being translated different things. It's like, I started to die spiritually inside and we didn't have the fellowship at that time with other believers who were on the same path. Mike was taking us to different churches, different conferences, and I was crying out to the Lord at this conference and Mike didn't know about it. And I told the Lord, if you don't change my life and do something, because I wanted, I knew there was more and I wanted to know, and I wanted to make sure it was the real thing. I said that I'll just go back and be just like a regular Christian like before, you know, just go to church and that's it. But I knew, like I said, the hunger inside of me.

28:31 I was crying as in if not, I'm just going back. So I was crying. I know somebody came by and touched me and literally the Lord put his hand inside of me and my life changed forever. That's when he opened my eyes where I could see angels, demons, no fear at all, started taking me. I would literally, I gave myself over to the Lord. I did before, but this time it's like I literally gave myself over to him. I said, I'll be a sign and a wonder, whatever you want to do with me and through me, I am yours. A lot of people had a hard time seeing what the Lord was doing through me because I was literally like a wonder to see what he did with my body. And for a couple of years, like I said, we couldn't have anybody come over because some of the things he was doing, it was a little too much for people and the Lord would not allow us to share to see. So he let me, I mean, literally I could see demons or whatever sickness people had. I could see that over them. He would show me diamonds over people's body to know which color, whatever tribe and different things.

29:49 He would give me words of knowledge, the power that was flowing through me. Can I explain that a little bit? Yes, go ahead. So yeah, what Gordana is talking about was the Holy Spirit would fall upon her and she would shake violently. She would feel his power and presence would like overtake her and she would shake in ways that weren't, that didn't even look humanly possible. So it wasn't well received, but it was received. She would like freeze in an ecstasy or whatever you want to call it. She would just like freeze in position with her hands in the air and she would be like that for like hours. And her own mom just really got really upset because she didn't understand it. But we would go to churches and it wasn't accepted because people didn't have an understanding that the Holy Spirit could come upon someone and cause that. So they would see it and sometimes they would think it was the devil.

30:53 So they would try and minister deliverance or they would think she had some kind of sickness. Yeah, seizure or something. Yeah. So they were trying to pray for her healing. And I remember once this big guy, he came over to where Gordana was, I was about 20 feet away from her. And there were some women and they were praying for her. And he came over and he chased them away. And I wondered what was going on. He's chasing these women away. And I heard him say, if you can't recognize the difference between the Holy Spirit and an evil spirit, you don't need to be praying for anyone. And he chased them away. And then he came over and he rebuked me. He said, you need to protect your wife.

31:36 Was that an angel? I was actually the head of the deliverance ministry of a big church. Oh, okay. Oh, wow. But anyway, so then he went over and he got the prophet of their house and she came over and prophesied over Gordana and was holding her feet and prophesying over her feet, which was an incredible scene and sight. But it challenged people when the Holy Spirit would fall upon Gordana and she would begin to shake in such a violent manner. They didn't have a grid for it. Right. Yeah. And even though miracles were done during this time, it's like Gordana would grab hold of someone. Well, I can let her tell the story, but she would grab someone and that electricity or that fire would come upon them and they would be healed. Even with all that happening, people still didn't have a grid for that. It was just too much.

32:33 It had good fruit. It had great fruit. Wow. Yeah. You know, discernment. We need better discernment when we can't recognize the Holy Spirit. Because that is one of the signs biblically that you tremble at His word, you tremble for fear of the Lord. Trembling is a scriptural thing and shaking all those things, it's scriptural, but people are sadly biblically illiterate. Yes. And we have a good history of it. I mean, you look at the shakers and the quakers. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. They weren't called that for non-biblical reasons. That's right. That's exactly right. So go on. Then what happened?

33:15 Well, like I said, I would try to control it. Like Mike said, we would go places and no matter how hard I would try to control it, it just like I couldn't because I knew it was the Lord. And you had given yourself to Him and allowed Him to make you a sign and wonder. Yes. So He took you at your word. Yes. I had to think that some of the things, yes, it was challenging because like Mike said, when the power would come and I would feel the electricity at nighttime, this will go on for four or five hours or six hours. When we would go to meetings and sometimes when I would give myself over, whether for healings, I would pray people, whatever, I would prophesy. Sometimes I wasn't able to speak. He would loosen my mouth. I could speak in tongues or I wasn't able to speak period. But if I spoke English, I would tell people, you're going to conceive or you're going to be married. A lot of times my arm would start just riding in the air to write books, to write books when I would pray for people. And when I would come out of it, I would tell them.

34:19 And I forget about a lot of the stuff. A lot of times I'm under the spirit, so I don't even know who I'm praying for. When you go through a little persecution and I would just ask the Lord, is this really you? I really need to know that this is you, what's happening with me and with my body. So we would go back to some of the churches where I pray for some of the people. And it's like, Godan, I remember you prophesied, you said that I was going to write a book. He said, I just want you to know my book's out and it's been published. So he was confirming everything that he was doing through me. But sometimes people had a hard time receiving it. Now, when it came to a prayer, Mike had to help me because the power was so strong on me, his presence.

35:07 Like I said, people will get healed right and left and delivered. But he always had to help me and carry me and hold me up. And the same stuff happened at home. And he let me experience a lot as far as the supernatural, seeing the angelic, seeing the demonic, no fear at all, no fear at all. And I'm talking angels, seeing I'm talking to them, seeing angels in the sky, he would write to me because I was telling him, I love you Lord, I love you so much. He would write to me in the sky and he would tell me, I love you. He opened up, when I would read the word, sometimes when I would read literally whatever I was reading, I just, I would see a display. We were driving, I think it was Ohio. And I just got through reading and Daniel, literally names went all across the sky that I was just looking at all. You could literally grab them and catch them all different sizes, names, last names, where I could read them in my mind, but he would not allow me to say the name, few names to tell Mike, but just some of the things that he showed me, it could be mind blowing to a lot of people, to be honest.

36:30 Were those names so that you could intercede for people? I really don't know because I was literally reading, he said, you know, this is not the time to seal it up from the book of Daniel, the last chapter 12 for the knowledge to increase, to go to and from. That was a fun trip by the way. I would ask him that, like Lord, because I prayed a lot, I would intercede every person that I knew or remember or always for co-workers, neighbors, families, church people. And a lot of times he used to take me just to go and pray in different nations and release. I would literally feel the power and blowing and releasing that glory over nations, over country. And I knew when I was going, because I could feel the difference, whatever my body, which parts when I was either walking or if I was flying, I could smell, I realized the different places I was going, it would shift.

37:39 And when he would speak through me, when I was speaking different language, I could always know when it shifted. So that's when I would go to different places, if that explains. So tell about the time you went to China that you shared with us the other day in class. That's when I got filled with the Holy Spirit. When I was coming back home, when I like on the day of Pentecost, when they were filled with the Spirit and spoke in different languages. So we're coming back home and as soon as I entered the house, I felt something going on inside of me in my stomach. I remember I said, first part of my life, I spoke in tongues, I spoke, but not to this, this was a total different baptism. So I started to hold my mouth because I felt something bubbling up and I'm keeping my mouth shut. And I thought, I better run upstairs.

38:39 I can't hold this. I feel like I'm going to explode the air that it's coming through up, through me, through my mouth. I can't hold this. I'm going to explode. So as soon as I went upstairs, you know, the different language, I spoke Chinese for about three days. Three days. Wow. All of a sudden, I remember one night here I am praying and I'm singing and I'm leading worship. And I don't do that. In Chinese. In Chinese, I'm very shy person. I don't sing. I do it in my own private time to the Lord. Mike's the one that does the singing. So I'm a little bit intimidated to sing in front of him. I used to, not anymore. So I'm singing in Chinese, my hands up in the air. I'm just like directing like the choir, all of these people. I'm going to say there were probably about 50 people. So we're singing.

39:38 And you're seeing yourself. Yes. Where? Here. I know I was looking, I was out like towards the window. I knew my body was there, but I could see, I mean in China, because I could see myself, it was outside. In the rice paddies. In the rice. I can feel the wet, the water underneath. And it's all like grass. I didn't realize that it was rice the later on because it was tall. And we're worshiping the Lord. After we worshiped, they were singing. This went on for a little while. It was towards in the evening. And next thing I said, the police is coming. The police is coming. This is all in Chinese.

40:19 So we all started running. And then bang, I was back at home where literally it's like, I could feel the water and everything on my feet, but I didn't look down to see somebody else. Did you look to see if your shoes or pants? I just experienced it was. But your feet still felt wet? Oh yes. I felt that it was so real. Yes. And did you see this? Did you see her waving? I did. I'd heard it was one of the strangest things up to that point I had ever seen, but she was standing in our bedroom and she was directing a choir and she was singing in Chinese. Now she'd already been speaking only Chinese for several days. She couldn't speak English at all, no matter how much she tried to either me or the kids or anyone else. And so I see all this going on. So I realized she's somewhere else. I'm just seeing kind of the overflow of what's going on.

41:20 And I think she spoke Chinese for three days at that time. And I think right after that, my parents were supposed to come over for Sunday dinner and she was upset because she couldn't speak English and my parents are definitely not on the grid for God doing that kind of miraculous. But God loosed her tongue at literally the last moment, just as they stepped through the door. But I thought, you know, I kind of wrestled with the idea. Well, you know, we don't know that this is really Chinese. Maybe it's just some other tongue and you know, all the things that you think about because to try and find a reason for a miracle to have happened, you know, the natural, what's the natural reason. But about a couple of years later, we were in the Philippines and there was a group of about 50 Chinese people and Gordana and Reshma Allen were praying for everyone. I mean, there's like 400 people and they prayed for each and every person. And this Chinese lady comes over to me and said, Oh, I didn't know your wife spoke Chinese. She just gave me a word in Chinese. And I realized that it was indeed what God was doing because she was giving words in Chinese to people as she prayed for some of them. Glory to God. So it was pretty incredible. That's marvelous.

42:42 So you were actually two places at once in the spirit. You had traveled to China while you were standing in your bedroom. Yes. Yeah. Yes. And it's real. Yes. Very. It's absolutely real. And we could tell stories for hours and hours of those kinds of realities. Why don't you tell us a couple more of those kinds of stories? Because here's the thing. I want people to understand one thing. And this is what I love about the two of you. Gordana, you're a hairdresser. Is that correct? I used to do that. I had a stop. Yes. Okay. And Michael, your job was... Repairing coffee machines and other types of vending equipment.

43:26 Okay. Rather ordinary, mundane kind of jobs. Yes. Yes. But because you were pursuing God in your life, you were pursuing Him and making yourself available to Him. So through this process of being very ordinary people, doing very ordinary jobs, God began doing extraordinary things through you, supernatural things through you, because you got the vision that that's what He wanted to do. You read the Bible and said, yeah, we can do this. Do this in my life. I'm available.

44:09 Here I am. Here I am. Do it with me. Yeah. Many Christians are the mindset, especially in Bible school. It's like, what is the main thing they kind of teach in Bible schools? Well, to be a preacher. Sure. Go be a pastor. Go be a pastor. Go be a missionary. To be a missionary. But when you get something that's out of the box, because something like this is something that the Bible school does not teach you. It's the Holy Spirit Bible school that teaches you. Amen. And that's and many don't know there's a real Holy Spirit Bible school. Amen. Because they're so used to what they've seen or heard. Right. Yeah. But it's all about becoming available. Yeah. Saying, here I am, Lord. And developing an intimate relationship with the Lord. Now, Michael, you tell some stories about how you began to have experiences where you kind of started enjoying what you were doing for your own fun. Yes. Amusement. You had to bring that up. Well, you know, I just want to bring balance to people so that they understand the importance of keeping a right attitude. Can you just tell us a little about that? Yeah. So even though all these things that we talk about, the miraculous, the things of the Spirit, that is absolutely real, a believer has to keep anchored in Christ. Amen. And the Lord had to teach me that lesson because I realized as I began taking steps

45:40 of faith and the Lord was like catching me into the spiritual realm to either teach me something or give me a vision or a word that he would deliver to me. I realized the reality of that, but I also enjoyed being in that realm because the difference between the spiritual realm and the natural realm is night and day. And when you hear people say that they died and they didn't want to come back. And the reason being is that this world, this natural world pales in comparison to the spiritual world. And I was experiencing that. And so do you want the whole story or do you want the highlights? You can give whatever the Holy Spirit says to do. Okay. So I realized something that in the spiritual realm, anything is possible. That's why when you pray for people in the spiritual realm, you often get great results because there is no baggage of doubt and unbelief.

46:41 You're in a different realm. You're in a different place. And so I realized having the Lord having sent angels to take me places and catching me away places, I realized that it's possible to fly in the spiritual realm. And I just enjoyed that experience so much that when I would get caught into the spiritual realm, rather than using that as an opportunity to worship or pray, which was my original intention, I would think to myself, I'm just going to fly for a little bit and then I will pray. But it never worked out that way. It just seemed like I would enjoy being in the spiritual realm. I wouldn't do anything for the kingdom in that moment. I wouldn't pray. I wouldn't worship.

47:27 I wouldn't ask God for revelation. I would just enjoy the experience of being in that realm. It's like you're awake for the first time in your life. That's how profound it is. So as I was doing this one day, I was sitting on the edge of my bed. I realized all of the sudden that I'm in the spiritual dimension because God would, he would allow that. I would focus on it so that I could pray or worship. And an angel blasted into the bedroom and he was huge and he was a warrior. I could tell he had power rolling off of him. I don't even know how to describe that accurately, but it was like billows of power that were coming off of him and they were hitting me.

48:11 And it was very uncomfortable. And he looked very angry and he came over to where I was sitting on the bed and he leaned down into my face and he said, quit seeking the supernatural to amuse yourself. You'll open a door to the spirit of witchcraft. And then he was immediately gone. And I felt like I'd been run over by a truck. It was that, that experience was a correction and I, I cannot forget it, but it let me know the importance of regardless of what miraculous event, what's going on, how fun it is, any of that, it takes a second place to the fact that the things that we do, we must do for the glory of God, for his kingdom and at his direction. We only do those things that we see the father do. Beautiful. Beautiful. So anchors, can you give us a couple of ideas of the things that we need our listeners to understand to keep them anchored in the Lord so that they don't get off into the wrong things. I mean, you've just given us one, not to do something for your own amusement. Yeah. Right. What are the things I always say, just stay close to the Lord, stay in the word, stay in the word. Don't seek the soup. I know we serve a supernatural God, but if you seek him, he will let you see everything you need to see.

49:33 He knows what's best for you. Don't seek experiences. Seek him. Seek him. That's it. Seek him and stay in the word. Yes. That's definitely Gordana's, that's her go-to thing. It's like she spends a lot of time in the word. And so there is, if you're in the word and you're grounded in the word and you're constantly in the word, you constantly have that as your direction, your focus is the word. So you're going to be obedient to that word that you're putting before your eyes. And it really does keep you grounded. Yeah. And also it helps to have someone maybe to have accountability to. That's good. Yes. That can help you work through issues if you have them figure things out, pray for you, that type of thing. Testing the spirits. Oh, that's a big one.

50:30 From 1 John 4, that's really important. Ask the spirit, did Jesus Christ come in the flesh? Yes. I had an experience once when, well, actually more than once, but if this is the kind of life that you're seeking to live like Philip or Paul or John, you see the kind of life that they had and you read in the scriptures some of the things that were going on and you realize these guys live totally miraculous lives. If you're seeking that, then you definitely have to have the safety nets in place, which is knowing who you are in Christ, having discernment, discerning of spirits and testing the spirits. Because, you know, when the Bible tells us that we should test the spirits, it tells us for a reason because it is a possibility. It's not something so far-fetched out there that, well, this will never happen. No, it wouldn't be in the Bible if it wasn't a possibility for it to happen. So I had an experience once when I was in Australia and this being shows up in my room and he just looks so majestic and so handsome and just so powerful. But there was a check in my spirit. Something was not quite right. And so I'm looking at him and I'm thinking something's not right. He's not glowing bright enough or something. I don't know what's wrong.

52:04 And so when I thought that, suddenly he's glowing brighter and he's smiling with a brighter smile and he's looking even more just wonderful, which really made me uncomfortable then. And so I said, did Jesus Christ come in the flesh? And his smile went to this incredible scowl that overtook his face and he got very angry and he said, why do you people always have to ask that? And then he just disappeared. I didn't even have to rebuke him. He knew he was found out. But that's the safety net God gives us. So we have to make use of it. Yes. Now just one more question. How long did it take for you to get to where you are now in terms of being in the flow of the supernatural? And it's your lifestyle now. So did it take weeks or days or? Well, you know, having the experiences that we've had and the lessons that we've had, I think that part continues. But the part about being launched into this as a lifestyle, I think it was instantaneous once we had the passion to pursue it. Because with me, even though we had looked for a way to have that kind of life that we were hearing testimonies about, as soon as I heard Dr. Bruce's explanation, it was like two days later that this became

53:40 lifestyle. I was spending time in my prayer chair, waiting on God and visions were coming. Okay. With Gordana, it was also kind of an instant thing because when she came before the Lord, weeping and saying, you have to give me that life that I'm reading about in the Bible, it was that day, 11, 11, 11, that the Lord put his hand inside her and just shook her to the core and changed her life completely. But is it always every day like this or are there days where absolutely nothing happens? Well, with Gordana, I would say it's pretty much every day, pretty much every day. I mean, it's rare that the Holy Spirit doesn't fall on her and her night times, I mean, even here at your place, it's like she's overwhelmed by the Spirit and she intercedes and her body shakes under his power for hours.

54:38 And for her, it's pretty much every day. But I learned something about myself. If I laden myself with too much work, even ministry work, it kind of, and I get over tired from doing ministry work, then it pulls me back from the spiritual dimension a bit. So I literally have to set work aside and come and have my quiet time with the Lord if I want to walk in it every day. Wow. Yeah. Wow. But you always kept a journal. Yes. And there were some journals, journal days where you fell asleep? I tell people, keep a journal because it's like an expectation that God's going to do something. And so you have your journal and your pen ready to write it out, what God's going to show you. And this is for everyone. And my journey, even as God began to show me things, was often, an entry in my journal would say, I fell asleep after 10 minutes of waiting on God, or I wanted to wait on God, but I fell asleep. I have no recollection that I waited at all.

55:46 Or just all of these things kind of being a part of the journey, just trying and kind of failing. Because even though I wanted to pray and wait on the Lord, I just didn't have the physical strength so I would often fall asleep. I mean, this- Well, you were working 60 hour weeks. I was working 60 hour weeks, yes. In your ordinary job. In my ordinary job. But you were praying all through your ordinary job, praying for people releasing the glory. I was. Yeah. And God was doing things. He was doing things. And so I couldn't be disappointed that I could not stay awake during the times of waiting on the Lord because then during the day, He would just show Himself in miraculous ways. He would- Oh, that's awesome.

56:31 Miraculous things would happen. I know, Gordana, it's the same way, even in normal everyday life. Some of the things she would come home and tell me about, well, a woman she was praying for, you know, like Gordana shakes when the power of God comes upon her. So she's hugging a woman and working on her hair, who was sick. And all of a sudden this woman begins shaking violently and she does, what's happening to me? And she says, it's okay. God's touching you. God's touching you. Don't worry. Don't be afraid. Or angels would show up to talk to her, even at the salon where she worked. And it was just, God was making Himself real. So I didn't feel bad for falling asleep.

57:17 Right. And because I knew that He was kind of directing our journey and we were seeing just, even little miracles, you know, just let you know He's present. He's present. Beautiful. It's been a great journey. Beautiful. I'm kind of at the falling asleep stage, you know. But one thing I haven't done is have a journal with a pen. Maybe that's- Yes. I need to do that. And I've been purposely drinking the more water at night if I go to the bed. So you have to get up. That's a good idea. You know, and then sometimes it's a stiff neck, you know, but I'd sit the alarm for an hour, you know, and I'll go off and say, okay, what did I accomplish? You know, I'm trying to pray, just picture Jesus, you know, worshiping at the throne and, you know, and then the alarm goes off or, you know, but, you know, I'm happy the winter fall season is coming on us where we don't have all this extra outside work where it's so hot and you're so tired and all that. And I'm looking forward to being able to spend more.

58:23 Amen. A little more time inside the house. It's going to be good. Yeah. Amen. How long do you- But the point is diligence. Diligence, perseverance. Obedience. Obedience. That's another key. Obedience. And anybody can do this. Yes. Anybody. You know, Jesus said, you are my friends if you do what I ask you to do. You know, so it's- That's true. You know, and there's real keys there. Right. You know, it's just really, you know, in the scriptures, you read it, you know, the Lord just giving those keys, it's just, it's all about him keeping him the center of it all. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. So Michael, you've written a number of books.

59:04 I have written a few. And how can people find those? Just give us a few titles. I love that one about, about prayers. Violent prayers. Yes. For your adult children, right? Yeah. I actually had a publisher friend of mine talk to me about that. He said, that is the best title I have ever read. But, but yeah, so violent prayers for your adult children. It's just, we would go to so many meetings and even though we talk about things that are really inspiring sometimes, people can't really give themselves to that if they have issues, you know, like children that need to be saved, loved ones that are having problems. So I thought I've got to write that book to let people know.

59:50 Yeah. That there's, you know, God will answer their prayers. And so that book, Waiting on God, I tried to make that really simple and explain how, when we talk about waiting on God, what that means, how to see in the spirit, how to do spiritual warfare. Again, another very simple book. Angelic visitations. Angelic visitations. And they have keys, right? Spiritual keys to. Yeah. And they have the keys to the spiritual world. Keys, right? Spiritual keys to the. Spiritual key, powerful keys to spiritual site. Yeah. That's another one. And how do people get those books? They're on Amazon. I've got, I show them on our website, but I don't sell them through our website at this time.

1:00:34 So you have links to their, to them on Amazon. And so what is your website? It's River of Blessings International Ministries. So if people type in River of Blessings, then one of our pictures will show up and they'll know they're on the right track. Okay. And we'll have your pictures on the little graphic of our podcast so people can recognize you. So we'll put links to those things in our show notes. Would you just, we wonder, the other of you, would you pray for our listeners to have the kind of encounter that they are hungry to have with God? Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. So I'll pray and we can all agree for all the people.

1:01:19 Father in Jesus name, we just by faith right now, we release those things that you've given us and we release an agreement from God's own right hand that the people listening and the people that desire to be used of God in the most extraordinary ways, like Paul and the Bible, father, we just release that grace upon them right now. And we just ask father that you pour out your spirit exponentially on your people that love you and want to serve you and want to know you in these ways, father. We just release that grace upon them right now. Everything you've given us, father, I ask you to give it to them. And as you're listening to this, just receive it.

1:02:02 Tell the Lord, yes, Lord, I want everything you have for me, everything you paid for me to have, I receive it with gladness and just believe the Lord to do that now in Jesus name and father, we thank you for doing this. We thank you for increase of dreams and visions and visitations face to face with the Lord Jesus, whatever you have for us, father, pour it out. We receive it with gladness and we thank you for these things in Jesus mighty name. Amen. Amen. If you enjoyed today's podcast, please subscribe, rate and review this podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. Your review helps the podcasting platform suggest this podcast to other listeners who are also looking for a great move of the Holy Spirit. Check out our website at globaloutpouring.org to find out more information, read our blogs, connect with us and donate.

1:03:02 You can also browse our web store for life changing anointed books. Until next time, this is Sharon Buss and I'm Philip Buss. God bless you with this overwhelming loving presence.