Repentance and Healing: Addressing Abuse of Women in the Church

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Hello everyone, this is Stephen Strang and welcome to the Strang Report.

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Today we're going to handle a very serious and very disturbing problem and that is abuse of women.

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It's all through the culture. In many, many ways we all know the term the Me Too movement,

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which is how corporate America and Hollywood has responded to this problem. But the sad thing is

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it is also in the church, even with several fairly well-known scandals that have happened recently.

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And today my guest is Lee Grady, my longtime friend, the longtime editor of Charisma. For 11 years

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you've filled that role and even since you left in 2010 you have continued to work with us. So

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I'll say hello to you, Lee. Thank you for fitting this in. I wanted to do this podcast because

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it's very important and it's actually the cover story of the May issue of Charisma Magazine online.

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And it's powerful and of course that will come out in May. Some people will be watching this

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after it's out already. We're playing this of course in April. And my goal is to try to get

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out the message that is so powerful that we have to follow scripture. We have to, and really what

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we need to do, the church needs to repent of abusing women both in sexism and also sexual

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abuse of various kinds. So let me start by asking you this question. You approached us, you sent

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the article in, of course anybody who knows the journalism business knows that sometimes the

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editors will reach out to an author to write something. But in this case you had the idea to

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do it and you sent it to us. And of course we were very, very glad to put it in Charisma and even to

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do this podcast. But what motivated you to write this article? Well Steve, thanks for having me on.

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It's good to see you and congratulations on moving to a new building and I look forward to

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joining you there sometime when I'm back in Orlando. As you know, when I worked with you at Charisma,

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I started dealing with this issue. I first wrote a book in the year 2000 called,

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called Ten Lies, The Church Tells Women, which part of that book dealt with the problem of abuse,

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not only domestic violence but sexual abuse. And then because that just continued to grow and I

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started traveling and ministering, I started a ministry that focuses on helping women overseas

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who are struggling with various forms of cultural abuse and oppression. But all the time that I've

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been involved in this, I have known that women in the church were struggling with this feeling,

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not only that they were vulnerable and that sometimes there was predatory behavior on the

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part of men in the church and sometimes leaders in the church. That was there and then there was

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also this feeling that sometimes it was covered up when it happened. So that can make a victim feel

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even more vulnerable when maybe she goes and tells somebody that she was abused and then it is overlooked

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or excused or the woman is blamed herself for what the man did to her. So when we just lived

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through this most recent scandal involving International House of Prayer in Kansas City,

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and I know that the wounds are very fresh right now and people are still sorting through all of that,

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but it has raised so much concern among women today about whether or not they are safe in the church.

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And you know, this is not just a charismatic Pentecostal problem. We know that a few years ago

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it came up that there has been some systematic problems with sexual abuse in the Southern

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Madness Convention and it looked like there were times when leaders were covering that up.

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And then of course this most recent experience with IHOP has just made it all come to a head again.

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And so I approached you guys to say, is it not time for us as a movement,

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the charismatic Pentecostal movement, and we don't speak for all Christians, but I think

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Charisma has a role to play in speaking out on these types of issues. I think it's time for leaders

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in the charismatic Pentecostal movement to make a declaration of repentance for

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the fact that we haven't addressed this, we haven't done enough to make women feel safe,

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and that we're going to approach this, you know, before God and say, Lord, forgive us,

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first of all, for allowing this, for not addressing it, and then make a statement of

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repentance. And my prayer is that more and more leaders across the, across our movement will

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express these words and really search their own hearts about how we have allowed this to happen

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and then make a public declaration about it. I think it's going to bring healing if we do that.

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Well, I want to get to that declaration because there is one in the article that we'll talk about

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in just a minute, but you've mentioned several of the concerns. Of course, the Bible is a standard

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and has a very high standard. The apostle Paul dealt with these issues, particularly in the

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Corinthian church. Do you want to elaborate on that and maybe explain why you think there's,

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you know, the standard of the Bible that has missed so much and instead of dealing with them,

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often it's just covered up. So for example, when sexual abuse is found in the church,

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sometimes it's uncovered by a whistleblower or whatever, there's a emphasis to somehow hide it

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because it tarnishes the reputation of the person being accused or maybe the reputation of the

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ministry. Why do you talk to me about why that is and why you think it happens?

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Well, you mentioned the word standard. I mean, I think we all know that these days,

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in the body of Christ at large, I mean, biblical standards are being thrown around and

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removed and it's pretty much a free-for-all in some churches as far as where we stand on sexual

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issues. But in our movement, in the Charismatic Pentecostal Movement, we still believe that

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marriage is sacred. We still believe that marriage is between one man and one woman. We still

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believe in sexual purity and we still believe in the standards that are outlined in the letters

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of the Apostle Paul. You know, I did a study on his letters and there's only one letter of the

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Apostle Paul that does not address the issues of sexual immorality and holding leaders accountable

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for that. And that's the little tiny letter of Philemon. Every other letter of the Apostle Paul,

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he gets very, very clear. He makes it plain that immorality, fornication, adultery, homosexuality,

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go down the line, all those things are out of bounds in the church and that we are called to

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sexual purity and that requires, especially it requires leaders to be faithful in their marriages,

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to be faithful in their marriages, to be faithful in their marriages, to be faithful in their

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leaders, to be faithful in their marriages, and to be one man, one woman, pure, and to also call

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the people in the church to sexual purity. And that would mean that sexual harassment,

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you know, luring women into some kind of relationship by a married man or a single man,

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all those things are out of bounds and that women should be treated with respect. Paul even told

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Timothy, treat younger women as your sister and treat older women as your mother. So there's that

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whole aspect of respect that obviously those kinds of rules are thrown out when a leader or any man

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in the church views a woman, objectifies a woman, treats her like an object and tries to lure her

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into a sexual relationship. You know, Steve, when I first came to work for you in 1992, we're going

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way way back, one of the first news stories that I had to jump in and deal with over a long period

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of time was the scandal at the Cathedral of the Holy Spirit in Atlanta, Bishop Earl Paul. You

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remember that that story dominated the headlines for a couple of years because we learned that there

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was sexual abuse going on in that church from the very top that the pastor of the church as well as

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other staff members, male staff members, were praying on P-R-E-Y, praying on women in that church.

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And of course, they ended up coming forward. They had to go to the news media to talk about it. And

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it was a horrible scandal which ended up shutting down that church because it had become such a nest

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of immorality. I remember that more than 30 years ago, but we're still

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similar. And I remember that story, of course, very well. And we're not here to talk about that

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particular story. And of course, Earl Paul is now long dead, but it's just sad when that happens.

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And your article actually names some names. We're not here to do that today. We're to talk about

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the bigger issues. And one of the things that I talk about on my podcast is the whole thing about

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spiritual warfare. What we see in the culture is not warring against flesh and blood, but against

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principalities and powers. I'm talking about all the anti-Semitism and the sexual immorality,

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problems way beyond what you and I are talking about today. But in terms of attacking leaders,

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and I even want to make this personal, to ask you what you do to put guardrails around your life.

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Because when we talk about Christian leaders, a lot of times when it comes out, there really

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weren't guardrails. And I guess they must have thought they'd get away with it. The enemy would

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love to take me down. He'd love to take you down. He'd love to take down anybody who's holding up

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a standard because of the hypocrisy and the way that it calls disrepute to the body of Christ.

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And one thing that I've prayed, and I can't even remember ever saying this publicly, but I've prayed

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for years that the Lord would help me finish strong and never bring disrepute to the body of

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Christ. Because some of these scandals do that. It causes people to turn away. Early in my career,

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I attended a church where the pastor had to step down due to immorality. And one of my close friends'

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wife was involved. And so I sort of knew it up close and personal in a way that most people wouldn't.

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And there are still people that are not serving Christ because of the fallout of that scandal.

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The same thing happened with my mentor, Jamie Buckingham. And we're not here to go into all

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those kinds of things, but there's a fallout that happened. So let me ask you what it is that you do

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to put in guardrails and maybe expand it as suggestions for what others can do to follow

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your lead. Because I know that you do have guardrails in your life as I do.

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Yeah, and this is very timely, Steve, because my wife and I will be celebrating

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our 40th anniversary this coming Sunday. Well, happy anniversary.

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Thank you. And I have been teaching, particularly young men, because I do a lot of mentoring of

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young leaders now, teaching young men how to stay pure, whether they're single or married,

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and how to put those guardrails around their life. And for me, the number one way that that

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is, of course, let me step back and say, I think the absolute number one way that you stay pure

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sexually is to stay on fire for God. I mean, it's, it's, there's a lot of things that we can do

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practically. But I think keeping the fire of the Holy Spirit burning in our lives is the number

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one way that you're going to stay pure. Because when you're on fire for God, you're not thinking

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about anything else as far as sinful things. But for me, I surround myself with strong friends who

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know that they have access to my life and they can ask me anything. I have a lot of close friends

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who I call them Barnabas in my life. They are, they are not necessarily mentors. They are just

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close friends. I do have mentors as well. And I have always lived, tried to live my life as an

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open book. So I make a habit of going and talking to my friends about anything that I'm struggling

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with and being open about my weaknesses. That has been my practice since I was a young man. And when

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I went into ministry, or when I got ordained in the year 2000, 24 years ago, I went to one of my

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close friends and I just said, I want to tell you everything about my life, about my history,

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about my past. And I just want you to know all of my chunks so that you can ask me those hard

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questions. And I think that that is just so basic for any leader. But I find today that many, many

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Christian leaders don't, number one, they don't have relationships like that. And number two,

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many times they have never really opened up about their own issues to anybody. And that is a very

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dangerous place to be because the Bible says, James 5, 16 says, confess your sins to one another

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and you will be healed. So living in transparency, living in a vulnerable life is the secret

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to staying pure and staying on that straight path. So that has been a practice for me and that's what

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I teach others. Well, you know, we're just having a conversation in your comments, bring back so many

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memories and I want my viewers to hear what you have to say rather than me. But for me, for many

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years, Jamie Buckingham was that person in my life. And Jamie had his own shortcomings, but he rebounded

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from them and was always godly when I knew him. But when he died in 1992, the first thing that went

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through my mind was I'm going to have to be open with someone else, which I have been. The Lord has

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put other people in my life as well. And I think this is very important because sin hides in the

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darkness and there's something about the light. And that is important. And I hope that even this

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podcast will encourage some people who may be struggling or tempted to or people that are going

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to sign this declaration that we're going to talk about in just a minute. That it'll help be a

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turning point because that's really the goal. And I'll also mention Jack Hayford, who also played a

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mental role in my life for many, many years. And he told the story, I'm sure that you can find it on

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his website because so many of his teachings are there. When he was in his mid 30s, he had a tempting

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situation that he did not succumb to, but he tells in a very wise pastoral kind of way how the Lord

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really used that as a wake up call to cause him to go in the right direction. And let's hope and pray

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that this podcast today and the article in Charisma and your ongoing ministry. So there's two things I

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want to cover in the short time we have left. Number one, you have taught this message. Your

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article goes into how you've taught it in places like El Salvador, in the Congo, in different

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places. And you have had men come forward and repent of even a type of sexism that we don't see

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here. Like for example, in Uganda, where they had a chant that my cow is more valuable than my wife.

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And they didn't even see how wrong that was. Tell us about that and then how that's motivated you to

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do the similar thing here in the United States and with this declaration that you've written.

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Sure. Well, as you know, I started out when my ministry began way back in the days when I was at

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Charisma. I was going to different countries and I was trying to empower women to be in the

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ministry to discover their spiritual gifts, etc. And then I realized how oppressive it was for them

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to be in these third world situations where women were viewed as objects or they were viewed as

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animals. I mean, they were just put down so far. And the physical abuse in marriages was horrific.

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It was very eye-opening and now it's become common for me to go to these cultures and see this.

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And so I did begin to teach a lot of men, I would teach men's conferences and try to get them to

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understand through scripture to have a God's view of women. And that of course requires

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repentance because if you grow up in a culture where your father beat your mother and maybe your

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father had 12 wives and women were just down here in another category, that requires the Holy Spirit

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to change your mind and it requires repentance. And so countless times I have seen men come to the

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altar, fall on their faces and ask God to forgive them for mistreating their wives, for mistreating

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single women, for viewing women as objects, for hitting their wives, so many different things

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like that. But then when this whole thing came up recently at International House of Prayer and there

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was this heavy feeling of women are feeling vulnerable, they're feeling prayed upon, when a

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leader, you find out that a leader was mistreating women and then hiding it, it makes women feel

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unsafe. And so I feel like what we need to do is a similar thing that we would do in Congo or in

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El Salvador and that is let's publicly repent for this attitude because sexism can lead to

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spiritual, I mean to sexual abuse. It's, you know, when you view a woman as an object, you think

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she's down here somehow, you think that you have a right to mistreat her sexually, that's really

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at the root of this. And so we need to repent of it. And we also need to repent of covering it up.

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And then say, make a declaration, we're going to do our best to make church a safe place

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for women. That's what I think we need to do. Well, this declaration that is in the May issue of

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Charisma Magazine online is very, very strong. And we're going to make this available where

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people can actually sign it online. And I want to encourage my viewers to share this podcast and

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help us get this word out. We want other ministries to also pick up the mantle and share this. This

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needs to be a movement, not just, this is not just a podcast. This is a podcast about a movement

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that I really believe that you're starting Lee. And this is very important to the body of Christ,

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is very important to the lives of people that are involved in this thing. So this Declaration of

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Independence is a sincere apology to our sisters in Christ. And it begins this way, we repent on

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behalf of all abusers and we ask forgiveness for our sisters. And then it goes on, we repent for

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viewing women as sexual objects and instead of valuing them for their character traits,

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personalities and intellects and spiritual gifts, we ask for forgiveness. And it goes on in a similar

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matter. It's over a page long. I don't want to read all of it. Why don't you just summarize what it

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is and why you wrote this and what you hope to accomplish with it? Sure. And Steve, you mentioned

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earlier the Me Too movement. And I wanted to make a comment about the fact that, you know, I know that

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in our secular culture right now, we look at what's going on and we also see a very radical form

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of feminism that's out there today that maybe many Christians are uncomfortable with. And I just want

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to say, I'm not talking about that. I'm not talking about, let's just jump on the secular

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feminist bandwagon. There is a godly biblical view that we should have of women that we find in Jesus

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Christ himself. When Jesus was on this earth, Jesus was respectful of women and he radically

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elevated women because in those days they were down at this bottom rung of society.

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And you see all the women that Jesus ministered to, the bleeding woman, the crippled woman,

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Mary of Bethany who knelt at his feet, every woman that Jesus ministered to in the Gospels,

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Jesus was elevating them and showing a respect and an honor and a dignity, restoring something

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that the enemy took and also that men of that culture, they had that very degrading view of

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women. They viewed women as less than human and Jesus came to elevate that and to restore dignity.

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That's what we're talking about here and Jesus cares about women who have been abused and he

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wants them to know that that's not what defines them, their value is restored through Christ

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and that's why we want to make this statement. We're basically saying that we know that sin

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has damaged women and sin gets in the hearts of men and causes them to put women down,

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but because we are Christian men now, we are saying we understand that our sisters are valued and

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that they have equal value with men and that we're going to restore that and we're going to ask God

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to change us so that we don't have that negative view of them and that we will not only respect them,

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but that we will protect them and that we would say we don't want abuse happening in the church

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anymore. We are tired of this and we want the church to be a safe place.

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That's so well said and I think it's so important and before we end, I want you to pray and I want

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to say again that people should share this in the process. If you don't subscribe to my podcast,

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please do so. Hit the little bell so you know when we're on live Tuesdays and Thursdays at 4 p.m.

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Eastern time and we want to get this word out and you can subscribe to Charisma Magazine online by

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going to My Charisma.com. It is the May issue. It isn't out yet, but it will be. You want to read

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this article. Lee goes into a lot of other things which he just referred to about respecting women

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as equals. Even men who are not abusers, who are not doing anything immoral, sexually often will

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put down a woman with a respected ministry by using a term like girl or something like that. The

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article touches on some of those kinds of things. We need to get rid of that too because that goes

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very deep into the culture and even into the Christian subculture. I'll give you the final word

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and then close in prayer and we'll end the podcast that way.

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Yeah, let's just go ahead and pray right now. I want to just say that if anybody is listening

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to this podcast right now and you were abused, you might even be male, a guy, and maybe you were

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abused and it could have been in the church. We know that Jesus cares about that pain that

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you struggle with and we want to pray that God would heal that. Father, we thank you right now

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that even though our nation is struggling in so many ways spiritually right now, we are asking

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you to heal this problem in the church. We are asking you, Lord, to pour out your Holy Spirit

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in a fresh way on the body of Christ and we pray there would be an awakening. We pray, Lord, that

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men throughout this, our movement throughout the body of Christ in this nation, Lord, that we would

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turn away from any sinful attitude, any practice, any behavior, any addictions that men are involved

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in that have put women down, degraded them, harassed them, abused them. We pray that that would be

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broken and we pray that this behavior and also this cover-up would end and, Lord, we pray for

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every woman out there who has been abused, particularly by a man in the church or by a leader

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in the church or if the church turned away, turned a deaf ear to her concerns and covered it up or

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ignored it. Father, we ask that you heal those women from that pain and that trauma and we pray,

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Lord, because we know Jesus that you came to heal the broken hearted and so we ask that the Holy

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Spirit would come and pour out this healing on those who have been victimized and we pray that

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this predatory behavior would end. We pray that there would be a godly attitude in the hearts of

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men in the church, that we would see our sisters as equals and that we would have a protective

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heart for them, that we would treat them as our sisters and our mothers with purity and that,

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Lord, that we would see a great restoration and a great healing take place across the body of

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Christ. We pray that in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. And so thank you, Lee, for being on my podcast today.

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I believe this is very powerful. There's so much more that you go into in the article, which is the

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cover story of the May issue of Charisma Magazine online. People can find it after it comes out in

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May at MyCharisma.com. You can subscribe to get it in your inbox to get a copy of your very well

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written article and the declaration that we refer to that we're encouraging people to sign.

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Thank you for watching today. God bless you. Thanks, Lee.