The Value of Grandparents for Prodigals with Larry Fowler

WEBVTT

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If you love a prodigal, you can discover help

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and hope for the wilderness journey right here

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at When You Love a Prodigal Podcast. Welcome.

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You can also find help and hope for your own

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journey. I think you're going to like it. And

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welcome back to our conversation about our prodigals.

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As you may know, I seriously injured my right

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shoulder and arm in September. I was recovering

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basically all fall, and I'm now finally getting

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back to my responsibilities. So I know you haven't

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heard from me, but I hope you've been listening

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to some of those on YouTube. Every podcast from

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five years is on YouTube. On a few episodes of

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this podcast, I have mentioned the great joy

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I have in my grandchildren, all 10 of them. Even

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just saying that makes me ecstatic to think about

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them. I believe grandparents have an incredibly

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important role, calling in the lives of their

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grands. And that's what we're going to talk about

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today. And I'm especially pleased to be chatting

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with Larry Fowler. He is the founder of Legacy

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Coalition, which is intentional Christian grandparenting.

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And as soon as we get intentional, we can see

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more that we can do. I have shared on Legacy

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Coalition's Grand Monday Night, which Larry will

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tell us about. about some ways that grandparents

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can especially play a role when there are prodigals

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in the family. And I've written a bunch of blog

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posts for them. And so I'm thrilled with what

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God is doing in this ministry. And I'm thrilled

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to introduce it to you and let Larry help us

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see what role you can play when there might be

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a prodigal or there is a prodigal among your

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grants. have an important role. So welcome, Larry.

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Well, thank you, Judy. You remember a couple

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years ago when you had breakfast with Diane and

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I. I do remember that. You came all the way across

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the whole Orlando city area to meet with us on

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the other side. We appreciated that so much.

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That was a fun meeting, too. I loved it. So,

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Larry. Would you give us just a little background

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on the idea of Legacy Coalition, where it came

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from, and how it's rolled out? Well, of course,

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most of the ministries that we're involved in

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come out of our personal calling and personal

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experience. And so let me just kind of quickly

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tell you my family background, which is a big

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part of this. So Diane and I were married at

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age 20. Our daughter was married at age 19. And

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we became grandparents at age 43. That's not

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so unusual. But I loved the little guy when he

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was born. In fact, he was born on my birthday,

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Judy. So there's a special bond there. There

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is. And my daughter says the best birthday present

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she ever gave me. And, of course, she's right.

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That's true. But, you know, I was involved in

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ministry. I've been involved in children's ministry

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all of my life. I didn't think a lot about what

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my role was. I loved him, but I didn't really

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think, what should I be doing as a grandfather?

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And then seven years later, that son -in -law,

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the grandson's dad, had made a bunch of really

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bad decisions over and over again, and they divorced.

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I've been there with that. Yeah. My daughter

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moved in with us, with her three little ones,

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and I became both dad and grandpa. What a joy

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and challenge. Yeah, I started stepping up my

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thinking about what should I be doing because

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I didn't want my grandsons to follow in the sins

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of their father. That was in about the year 2000.

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Then in 2010, I was one of the executives for

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Awana Clubs. You know of Awana. I know Awana.

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And I was working on a curriculum project in

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my department that meant me studying all the

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passages in the Bible that talked about generation

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to generation. And that must have been really.

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enlightening, eye -opening kind of thing. Well,

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it was, but nothing ever came of the curriculum.

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It was a project that didn't go anywhere. And

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after we kind of said, you know, I don't know

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what to do with this, I still had my notes. And

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one Friday afternoon when the office was really

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dead, I was looking at those notes again and

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I saw scripture with new eyes. I'm sure that's

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happened to you. Yes. You know, a passage that

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I'd never really noticed before just jumped out

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at me, and it was Deuteronomy 4 .9, the last

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part. It says, teach your children and your children's

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children. And I was sitting there, and it just

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hit me. I have a responsibility before God as

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a grandfather. I had never thought. That was

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the parents' responsibility. Yeah, I saw the

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first part. I didn't see the grandparent part.

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And that day, I saw Scripture with new eyes and

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my role as a grandfather with new eyes. And what

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did you see or understand that role would look

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like? That I had a responsibility for God to

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tell faith stories, to be intentional about passing

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on my faith. And that verse is talking about

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telling children and grandchildren the things

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God has done in our lives. So it is kind of a

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verse about faith stories. And I love it. It's

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a beautiful thing. You know, when I look back

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at my life, I don't necessarily think of my,

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I knew my grandparents and we actually visited

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them. But they were not really a part of my life

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on any consistent basis. And they were not that

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far away even. So it's not like I couldn't see

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them. Well, by this time, I was far away. My

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daughter had remarried, moved to Colorado. We

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were living in Illinois. And my son, though,

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was starting his family in Southern California.

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And it became such a deep conviction that I went

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to the president and said, I can't do this anymore.

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I got to move. And so we moved from Illinois

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to California to be close to our son as he was

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starting his family. Yay for you. I got reassigned.

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I had a new assignment. My job was to just kind

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of schmooze with children's pastors in megachurches.

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Sounds fun. And there are plenty of megachurches

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in California. There were. I lived there 25 years.

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And, of course, I visited a bunch of them here

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in Florida, too. And invariably, they would say,

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so why did you fly in from California? I thought

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the headquarters was in Illinois. So I would

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tell them about my passion for grandparenting,

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Judy. And then I started asking them, so has

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your church ever done anything on grandparenting?

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Guess what? Never. Not a single church. I've

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never had it. Even the churches whose pastors

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were grandfathers. And they would say, our pastor

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talks about his grandkids all the time. But you

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know what? We've never thought about equipping

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grandparents. And we could not find a single

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church in America. that was equipping Christian

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grandparents. And look what God's done in then

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a short time, really. Well, yeah. Now there's

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2 ,500. That's awesome. But there are 300 ,000

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churches in America. So we have two zeros to

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go. We're almost at 1%. But you're multiplying

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rather rapidly is my observation. Yes. God's

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blessing is just on us. We're just seeing the

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favor of God in the things. Well, so tell me

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what you're doing and what does it look like?

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The name, where did that come from? Well, we

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wanted to be a legacy coalition of organizations

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that were committed to that. There weren't hardly

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any other organizations interested in grandparenting.

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So we are a coalition. We've changed our direction

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a little bit. We're a coalition of churches and

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individuals who are devoted to being intentional

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Christian grandparents. And the motive that drives

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us is we want to see our grandkids in heaven

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with us someday. Absolutely. There's nothing

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I want more in this world than that. So we're

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going to work really hard at being the best influences

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we can possibly be for our God in their lives.

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That's so thrilling to hear. And so what did

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you start with then? What did you start doing?

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Well, we started with developing some resources.

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There were virtually no resources for grandparents.

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That first year in 2016, we actually developed

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four resources, two books, a video series, and

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a little kit. With four, Judy, we were the largest

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source of Christian grandparenting resources

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in the world. It was just four. That didn't take

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long, did it? And then we did the very first

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national conference on Christian grandparenting.

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Okay, because I know that's been a part of it.

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It's been a part. We do it about, not every year,

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but about every 18 months, 16 to 18 months we

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do it. So what happens at the... conference?

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Well, it's a two -day conference, so it's a blend

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of main stage talks. And you have some pretty

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big main stage speakers now. Pretty big main

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stage people, yeah. And we're doing it this year

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at Chuck Swindoll's church. And, you know, we

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think he might, this is a secret. Should we do

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a secret on the air? If you want. We think Chuck

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Swindoll may actually be there. Really? Yeah.

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He's my friend. Yeah, he is. We hope, we're just

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praying that he's well enough for that. That

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would be awesome. He's a good man. He is a great

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man. If, you know what, if Protestants had a

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Pope, I would vote for Chuck Swindoll. For Chuck

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Swindoll. That's good. He's got it. I knew Lucy

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even better than I knew him. Did you? Yeah. So

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that's a great thing. So what happens there?

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at the conference? Well, we'll have pretty close,

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between 1 ,500 and 2 ,000 people. I thought this

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one was looking really big. Yeah, and we'll have

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resource providers. We have like a resource center

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with about 60 different ministries will be represented

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there that all have tools to equip grandparents.

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We have speakers that all are focused around

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the theme of a heart for eternity, which means

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looking at this life from the perspective of

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eternity, not just warm, fuzzy feelings about

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heaven. looking through the lens of eternity

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for what we do in this life. And they're tackling

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that from all sorts of different perspectives.

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You know, what do you do when the grandkids are

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addicted to screens? How do you handle gender

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identity issues and things like that? So huge.

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How do you handle brokenness in the family? All

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of those topics will be covered by main stage

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speakers and then even more practically so in

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the breakouts. And then you also have... The

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Monday night, Grand Monday night. Great title,

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by the way. Real good job. So I know that came

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during COVID, at the beginning of COVID. It did.

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And so how did that evolve? Because that's a

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big deal every week. Our model before that was

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to do seminars. And we had a full plate of seminars

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scheduled when COVID hit. And, of course, all

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of them canceled. Yeah. And we were like, what

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are we going to do? How are we going to reach

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grandparents? And Barb Lorenz, who has become

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our host and become a friend of yours. She's

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a sweetheart. She just she was a successful businesswoman

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that was looking for something to do significantly

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in ministry. And she stepped up and she said,

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I'll take this on. And she's become the host

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and producer of a webinar that we have that's

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free every Monday night. People can watch it

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online, live, or they can watch the replay on

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our website for seven days afterwards and still

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get it. Which I've done when I can't. Yeah. And

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now we have over 250 episodes that are in our

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library. And they tackle about every challenge

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imaginable for grandparents. And you were on

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there talking about prodigals. I was on there

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a couple of years ago. And that was very fun

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to make me stop and think, how can you concisely

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give some help in the short time that is available?

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Well, you did. You did. I love it. So you told

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me you had a story about that. I do. Yeah, yeah.

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So at the end of that episode. You told a story,

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and I don't remember the details too well of

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the story, but I remember that you told a story

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about a group of grandmas that got together to

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pray for their prodigals. That's true. I have

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a relative that has eight kids, and he and his

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wife have a prodigal with one of the eight. His

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wife was listening that night, and she said,

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I'm going to do that in my church. And she got

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together, she called up some of her grandma friends,

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and they started meeting on Monday nights to

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pray specifically for prodigals. By the way,

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I think that's one of the things that we could

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do to become more effective in praying for prodigals,

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is this whole idea of praying together, corporate

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prayer. And anyway... In groups of grandmothers

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or... the parents or in a church to say we're

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having a prodigal prayer night yeah we do that

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with the with our prayer for prodigals ministry

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uh one of our Women, I'll never forget when she

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came to her first gathering to pray for prodigals.

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June 2nd is our Worldwide Prodigal Prayer Day.

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It's our prodigal's birthday, spiritual birthday,

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the day he met Jesus. It was the beginning of

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kind of life, of up and down. It took him another

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20 years to really get to a good place. Anyway,

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and so this woman came the first time she realized

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all the trouble her daughter was. And she just,

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you know, the big eyes, like headlights shining.

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And she and her husband walked through a hard

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time. Her daughter is mostly okay. We helped

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her decide that. her daughter and her son could

00:16:00.350 --> 00:16:03.509
live with them rather than suffer out there trying

00:16:03.509 --> 00:16:07.049
to figure out how to hold life together. And

00:16:07.049 --> 00:16:11.409
she now leads a huge ministry for people with

00:16:11.409 --> 00:16:15.289
prodigals. So yeah, there are a lot of good stories.

00:16:15.450 --> 00:16:20.389
There are. those that are listening that don't

00:16:20.389 --> 00:16:24.850
have a good story yet, you just keep hoping,

00:16:25.129 --> 00:16:28.490
you know, the Lord can really work in their lives.

00:16:28.690 --> 00:16:33.919
Well, so my relative... says to me after this

00:16:33.919 --> 00:16:35.919
had happened a while, and I didn't know about

00:16:35.919 --> 00:16:38.299
it, but so he's telling me about it. And he says,

00:16:38.320 --> 00:16:41.019
he says, Larry, he says, I just love it when

00:16:41.019 --> 00:16:43.700
she comes home from these Monday night prayer

00:16:43.700 --> 00:16:45.960
requests or prayer groups, because virtually

00:16:45.960 --> 00:16:49.039
every week there's a miracle of a prodigal taking

00:16:49.039 --> 00:16:53.740
a step back towards faith. And their daughter

00:16:53.740 --> 00:16:58.100
has returned to the Lord. Stop making some bad

00:16:58.100 --> 00:17:02.120
decisions and making good decisions. And hopefully

00:17:02.120 --> 00:17:08.500
they can have patience. Sometimes we think they

00:17:08.500 --> 00:17:13.480
decided right and expect transformation overnight.

00:17:13.660 --> 00:17:17.220
And it happens sometimes, but it usually is a

00:17:17.220 --> 00:17:21.099
journey. It usually is a journey. I had an interview

00:17:21.099 --> 00:17:26.140
with a man that has a prison ministry. out of

00:17:26.140 --> 00:17:30.759
the state of Montana about a month ago. And he

00:17:30.759 --> 00:17:33.720
was telling me, he says, he's talking about the

00:17:33.720 --> 00:17:36.579
value of grandparent prayer for prodigals. He

00:17:36.579 --> 00:17:40.220
says he'll go into a jail and he will ask the

00:17:40.220 --> 00:17:43.559
inmates, how many of you have a grandparent that's

00:17:43.559 --> 00:17:47.279
probably praying for you? And Judy, he said,

00:17:47.519 --> 00:17:51.420
most of the men in virtually every situation,

00:17:51.420 --> 00:17:53.519
most of the men will raise their hands in the

00:17:53.519 --> 00:17:57.240
air. And then he says, he tells them, he said,

00:17:57.339 --> 00:17:59.599
I just tell them, you might as well come right

00:17:59.599 --> 00:18:01.940
down to the front to the altar call right now

00:18:01.940 --> 00:18:03.900
because you don't stand a chance if grandparents

00:18:03.900 --> 00:18:07.339
are praying for you. Grandparents often have

00:18:07.339 --> 00:18:10.740
more time to focus on praying for them. Parents

00:18:10.740 --> 00:18:14.640
are busy anyway, but they have discipline issues

00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:18.299
and boundary issues and that kind of thing to

00:18:18.299 --> 00:18:21.410
work on. So what are some of the topics you've

00:18:21.410 --> 00:18:27.950
covered in Monday Night? Well, we talk a lot

00:18:27.950 --> 00:18:31.470
about just the barriers, how to overcome the

00:18:31.470 --> 00:18:35.630
barriers that grandparents face. So a huge one,

00:18:35.690 --> 00:18:38.829
of course, is just geographical distance. Well,

00:18:39.029 --> 00:18:41.150
when you don't see them very often. Sometimes

00:18:41.150 --> 00:18:44.650
it's not the number of miles. You can live across

00:18:44.650 --> 00:18:47.960
town. Not see your grandkids much. Yes, it has

00:18:47.960 --> 00:18:51.740
to be intentional. But how do you deal with that?

00:18:52.019 --> 00:18:56.779
How do you deal with relational issues? And what

00:18:56.779 --> 00:19:00.220
do you do if your son and daughter -in -law gets

00:19:00.220 --> 00:19:04.700
divorced and she gets custody of the kids and

00:19:04.700 --> 00:19:07.660
she's mad at your son and she takes it out on

00:19:07.660 --> 00:19:09.720
you too? That's right. That happens. You didn't

00:19:09.720 --> 00:19:13.220
have anything to do with it, but you get the...

00:19:14.839 --> 00:19:19.339
full uh her her wrath and she cuts you off from

00:19:19.339 --> 00:19:22.759
the grandkids uh grandparents getting cut off

00:19:22.759 --> 00:19:25.859
well yeah i was gonna say and that's a huge thing

00:19:25.859 --> 00:19:30.220
too the if the kid your your kids are the ones

00:19:30.220 --> 00:19:35.140
that are maybe making not so good choices and

00:19:35.140 --> 00:19:37.559
they don't want you influencing their children

00:19:38.150 --> 00:19:41.190
then it becomes prayer is the main thing you

00:19:41.190 --> 00:19:44.289
have. I mean, it's always the main thing, but

00:19:44.289 --> 00:19:46.970
it's the only thing. I could tell you quite a

00:19:46.970 --> 00:19:50.390
few stories of miracles God's done because the

00:19:50.390 --> 00:19:53.730
grandparents couldn't see their grandkids, but

00:19:53.730 --> 00:19:58.150
they could pray, and God worked. Yeah, another

00:19:58.150 --> 00:20:01.970
story. I mean, this is a month of... These stories

00:20:01.970 --> 00:20:04.569
come all the time, Judy, and that's the thing

00:20:04.569 --> 00:20:07.210
that... I would want your listeners to know there

00:20:07.210 --> 00:20:10.690
are stories after story after story out there

00:20:10.690 --> 00:20:13.210
in all sorts of ministry. There was a couple

00:20:13.210 --> 00:20:17.170
in Louisiana that their son and daughter -in

00:20:17.170 --> 00:20:20.869
-law divorced. She took the kids to Europe and

00:20:20.869 --> 00:20:25.130
they completely lost track. They had no idea

00:20:25.130 --> 00:20:28.670
where these grandkids were. And they had had

00:20:28.670 --> 00:20:30.609
a close relationship with them when they were

00:20:30.609 --> 00:20:33.359
little. And that's all they could do. I mean,

00:20:33.380 --> 00:20:35.180
they couldn't find out where they were, nothing.

00:20:35.519 --> 00:20:39.380
But they kept praying, praying, praying for their

00:20:39.380 --> 00:20:43.579
grandkids. And one day, there was a knock at

00:20:43.579 --> 00:20:46.660
their door, and this young man, about 30 years

00:20:46.660 --> 00:20:50.410
old, was at the door and he said, are you? And

00:20:50.410 --> 00:20:53.829
said their names. And they said, yes, we are.

00:20:54.029 --> 00:20:56.869
He said, I'm your grandson. Oh, God, thank you.

00:20:56.950 --> 00:21:01.829
And they welcomed him, talked to him. He was

00:21:01.829 --> 00:21:05.410
so curious about their faith and why he hadn't

00:21:05.410 --> 00:21:10.410
had any access to them all those years. And now

00:21:10.410 --> 00:21:13.710
he's a worship pastor in a church. You know,

00:21:13.809 --> 00:21:16.849
and you were just saying sometimes it takes a

00:21:16.849 --> 00:21:19.670
lot longer than what we want. Sometimes it's

00:21:19.670 --> 00:21:23.069
going to take until after we die. Oh, that is

00:21:23.069 --> 00:21:26.250
true for sure. Yeah. It is. But we're in this

00:21:26.250 --> 00:21:30.690
for the long game. That's good. So we're talking

00:21:30.690 --> 00:21:33.849
about this to let your audience and my audience

00:21:33.849 --> 00:21:39.130
know. how to have a focus and to be intentional.

00:21:39.529 --> 00:21:42.529
It's intentional Christian grandparenting. And

00:21:42.529 --> 00:21:44.910
one of the most important things that grandparent

00:21:44.910 --> 00:21:49.150
can do is be on our knees to be praying for the

00:21:49.150 --> 00:21:55.210
Lord. So as you are doing even this next summit

00:21:55.210 --> 00:22:00.109
conference and the content of your things, how

00:22:00.109 --> 00:22:04.099
do you see that you'll be? encouraging the grandparents?

00:22:04.519 --> 00:22:07.339
Because I imagine you have a lot of grandparents

00:22:07.339 --> 00:22:09.940
who are listening since that's what it's about.

00:22:10.140 --> 00:22:12.720
Yeah, yeah. Well, one of the other things that

00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:16.200
there's, I don't know, I have a lot of things

00:22:16.200 --> 00:22:18.539
in my head, but one of the other things that

00:22:18.539 --> 00:22:22.420
I think is that grandparents really need to work

00:22:22.420 --> 00:22:27.279
on is leaning in to the relationship. You know,

00:22:27.299 --> 00:22:29.400
we say we can pray and that's exactly right.

00:22:29.480 --> 00:22:32.180
We should. It is first. It is the most important.

00:22:32.299 --> 00:22:35.039
It is the most powerful. But there's more. But

00:22:35.039 --> 00:22:38.779
there's more. And one of the temptations that

00:22:38.779 --> 00:22:43.099
grandparents have is when life gets a little

00:22:43.099 --> 00:22:47.920
messy is to lean out, lean, lean away from it,

00:22:48.019 --> 00:22:53.559
you know, avoid it. And if we have. Children

00:22:53.559 --> 00:22:56.440
or grandchildren that are prodigals, they have

00:22:56.440 --> 00:23:00.119
probably made some really bad choices. Maybe

00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:02.480
they're in jail. Maybe they're on drugs. Maybe

00:23:02.480 --> 00:23:07.140
they're in a lifestyle that is all of them. And

00:23:07.140 --> 00:23:10.339
that's a time we need to love them even more.

00:23:10.680 --> 00:23:17.099
That's a time. I had another relative who I've

00:23:17.099 --> 00:23:20.000
known since I was a kid. We played together a

00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:23.750
lot when I was a little kid. And we have a good

00:23:23.750 --> 00:23:26.789
friendship. And through all these years, when

00:23:26.789 --> 00:23:31.029
he and I communicate together, it's he and I.

00:23:31.549 --> 00:23:34.609
I've known his wife all that time, but I never

00:23:34.609 --> 00:23:38.049
got a phone call from her or anything like that.

00:23:38.069 --> 00:23:40.309
It's always him, right? Because we're two guys.

00:23:40.569 --> 00:23:45.210
Yeah. Well, one day, not too long ago, I got

00:23:45.210 --> 00:23:49.400
a voicemail from her. She says, Larry, call me

00:23:49.400 --> 00:23:52.720
right away. I need to talk to you. And I'm scared

00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:54.880
because I'm thinking, oh, no, a heart attack.

00:23:54.880 --> 00:23:56.740
What's happened? Yeah, a heart attack or something.

00:23:56.779 --> 00:24:00.640
After all, we're old, right? And so that's, and

00:24:00.640 --> 00:24:04.799
she says, Larry, she says, my granddaughter's

00:24:04.799 --> 00:24:08.529
just come out as a lesbian. And I said, this

00:24:08.529 --> 00:24:12.329
is the time to lean in even harder on the relationship.

00:24:12.509 --> 00:24:15.809
You don't have to agree, but you need to lean

00:24:15.809 --> 00:24:19.329
in. You need to love her more fervently than

00:24:19.329 --> 00:24:22.700
you've ever loved before. That's right. Larry,

00:24:22.700 --> 00:24:25.779
say it again. People don't know that. They think

00:24:25.779 --> 00:24:28.900
they've got to stand up for what's right. And

00:24:28.900 --> 00:24:31.859
if they don't agree with where they are, they

00:24:31.859 --> 00:24:35.619
come out against them as opposed to loving them.

00:24:35.980 --> 00:24:41.440
Yeah, yeah. Just Sunday, I was at a church, had

00:24:41.440 --> 00:24:45.630
a conversation with a pastor. about someone in

00:24:45.630 --> 00:24:49.269
his congregation that had kids making wrong decisions.

00:24:49.849 --> 00:24:52.250
He said the way she talks about them, she says

00:24:52.250 --> 00:24:55.930
it's just, she just puts them down and talks

00:24:55.930 --> 00:24:58.670
so negative and everything. He says, I'm fearful

00:24:58.670 --> 00:25:01.369
she's destroying her relationship with them.

00:25:02.250 --> 00:25:08.170
And so it is, that is an epidemic among us. Yes,

00:25:08.450 --> 00:25:12.250
yes. We talk a lot, Judy, we talk a lot about

00:25:13.690 --> 00:25:17.130
balancing truth and grace. Jesus was the full

00:25:17.130 --> 00:25:20.690
embodiment of both, right? John 1 14. And if

00:25:20.690 --> 00:25:23.670
we're going to be Jesus to them, we have to balance

00:25:23.670 --> 00:25:27.690
truth and grace, but we also can have a strategy.

00:25:28.569 --> 00:25:31.869
Of sometimes leading with truth and sometimes

00:25:31.869 --> 00:25:35.170
our strategy needs to be lead with grace. Right.

00:25:35.349 --> 00:25:39.190
When Jesus dealt with sinners, his strategy 100

00:25:39.190 --> 00:25:42.390
% of the time. Was grace. Was lead with grace

00:25:42.390 --> 00:25:45.710
first. Why? So they'll hear truth, right? So

00:25:45.710 --> 00:25:49.829
we talk about that a lot. But you know what?

00:25:49.930 --> 00:25:54.690
You and I have a history that is somewhat similar

00:25:54.690 --> 00:25:57.710
in that we grew up with a high view of truth.

00:25:58.440 --> 00:26:03.140
Oh, and most people who are true followers of

00:26:03.140 --> 00:26:05.599
Jesus would do that. We believe in the Bible.

00:26:05.700 --> 00:26:08.640
We look for Bible -believing churches. We, you

00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:13.460
know, all those things. And I just wonder if

00:26:13.460 --> 00:26:16.799
we've got that out of balance. And we're so anxious

00:26:16.799 --> 00:26:19.400
for our children and grandchildren to hear truth

00:26:19.400 --> 00:26:26.539
that we neglect grace. Which reminds me of our

00:26:26.539 --> 00:26:32.339
son who was... our prodigal, we adopted when

00:26:32.339 --> 00:26:36.160
he was 10 years old. It was a long story, but

00:26:36.160 --> 00:26:41.680
when we were at a hard time that he almost immediately

00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:46.480
was challenging and was for a long time, the

00:26:46.480 --> 00:26:50.319
Lord said to me, when you make mistakes with

00:26:50.319 --> 00:26:54.099
this boy, and you will, and of course we made

00:26:54.099 --> 00:26:58.259
mistakes, he said, make them on the side of grace

00:26:58.259 --> 00:27:04.400
yes yeah yeah and that that changed how we dealt

00:27:04.400 --> 00:27:07.259
with him yeah there were true things we had to

00:27:07.259 --> 00:27:12.480
do but he knew that we loved him but it was it

00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:17.720
was like Oh, so I get criticized now. Not as

00:27:17.720 --> 00:27:20.579
much now because he's finally in a very good

00:27:20.579 --> 00:27:24.720
place. But it took 20 years for him to grow into

00:27:24.720 --> 00:27:29.720
it. But God just, he says, grace, Judy, grace.

00:27:31.019 --> 00:27:34.819
All he's had is negative things in his life.

00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:38.539
His early life was hard. He just needs somebody

00:27:38.539 --> 00:27:41.210
who's going to love him unconditionally. And

00:27:41.210 --> 00:27:45.349
show grace. So, yeah. And what is grace? Grace

00:27:45.349 --> 00:27:48.230
is giving them what they don't deserve. Absolutely.

00:27:48.369 --> 00:27:51.390
Maybe they do deserve a tongue lashing. Yes.

00:27:51.710 --> 00:27:55.710
Maybe they do deserve some strong words. Some

00:27:55.710 --> 00:27:58.829
consequences. But as grandparents. You know what?

00:27:58.950 --> 00:28:01.609
I don't even know why we're called grandparents.

00:28:01.930 --> 00:28:05.930
I don't know why grand is attached to the word

00:28:05.930 --> 00:28:08.509
parent to describe us. But I have a different

00:28:08.509 --> 00:28:11.119
idea. I think we ought to be called grace parents

00:28:11.119 --> 00:28:15.339
instead of grandparents. I like that. Because,

00:28:15.339 --> 00:28:19.039
I mean, our role is different. And as grandparents,

00:28:19.500 --> 00:28:22.700
it was kind of the parents' job to tell them

00:28:22.700 --> 00:28:27.119
the truth. We know many parents don't, but parents

00:28:27.119 --> 00:28:28.960
are the ones that are to bring them up in the

00:28:28.960 --> 00:28:31.519
nurture and admonition of the Lord. They're the

00:28:31.519 --> 00:28:35.190
ones to pass on truth. How about if we... How

00:28:35.190 --> 00:28:38.130
about if we supplement that with grace? With

00:28:38.130 --> 00:28:43.690
a lot of grace, yes. I agree with you. And we

00:28:43.690 --> 00:28:48.369
should definitely do that. So what would you

00:28:48.369 --> 00:28:53.329
say is a very important thing, besides what we

00:28:53.329 --> 00:28:56.690
just said, in addition, that you would encourage

00:28:56.690 --> 00:29:00.799
my listeners? many of whom are grandparents,

00:29:01.180 --> 00:29:05.579
because the parents don't have time, don't have

00:29:05.579 --> 00:29:09.440
energy, are too busy trying to salvage this person.

00:29:09.519 --> 00:29:14.539
And the grandparents have more time often and

00:29:14.539 --> 00:29:17.380
often have learned a little more about life.

00:29:17.500 --> 00:29:20.920
And so they're ready. What are some guidelines

00:29:20.920 --> 00:29:25.240
you would give to grandparents if there are prodigals,

00:29:25.299 --> 00:29:27.480
either their own children or their grandchildren,

00:29:27.859 --> 00:29:31.680
but especially their grandchildren? One of the

00:29:31.680 --> 00:29:36.140
things I would say is don't be embarrassed. You

00:29:36.140 --> 00:29:42.480
know, we, especially in our churches, we tend

00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:45.640
to want to not tell anybody if we have a family

00:29:45.640 --> 00:29:49.640
member that's not doing well. Yeah, I know that.

00:29:50.099 --> 00:29:53.319
I've been in senior adult classes, Judy, where

00:29:53.319 --> 00:29:55.200
they'll have prayer requests at the beginning

00:29:55.200 --> 00:29:58.720
of their class, 25 prayer requests, and every

00:29:58.720 --> 00:30:02.259
single one of them is a physical ailment. But

00:30:02.259 --> 00:30:05.519
I know that there are some heart pains that are

00:30:05.519 --> 00:30:08.119
greater than any of those, but they're too embarrassed

00:30:08.119 --> 00:30:11.359
to put that on the prayer list. So they put their

00:30:11.359 --> 00:30:16.519
aching big toe, not the ache that's in their

00:30:16.519 --> 00:30:20.740
heart. I love that. And so we need to understand,

00:30:21.019 --> 00:30:25.519
grandparents who have prodigals need to understand

00:30:25.519 --> 00:30:28.539
they're not alone. In fact, very few families

00:30:28.539 --> 00:30:34.200
are not messy. Almost all of them are. Absolutely.

00:30:34.480 --> 00:30:38.200
And if someone has a family that's not messy,

00:30:38.299 --> 00:30:42.240
just wait a generation and it will be. We're

00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:44.119
all born with the same nature, right? And it

00:30:44.119 --> 00:30:49.480
comes out. So first thing is don't be embarrassed.

00:30:49.920 --> 00:30:56.819
I love that. And don't take it as a judgment

00:30:56.819 --> 00:31:00.900
upon your own parenting. That's really important.

00:31:01.259 --> 00:31:04.099
Because it could feel like that. It can feel

00:31:04.099 --> 00:31:07.599
like that, yeah. Yeah, I have a good friend,

00:31:07.660 --> 00:31:10.759
Rob Reno. Rob has a wonderful family ministry.

00:31:10.839 --> 00:31:14.779
And Rob comes from a pretty messy home situation,

00:31:14.799 --> 00:31:21.099
comes out of that himself. But he says, if everything

00:31:21.099 --> 00:31:25.500
in your family is good, if you have good relationships

00:31:25.500 --> 00:31:28.660
and everything, you be really careful how you

00:31:28.660 --> 00:31:31.720
talk about that because it's like a kick in the

00:31:31.720 --> 00:31:35.200
gut. If you brag on how good your family is doing,

00:31:35.319 --> 00:31:36.980
it's like a kick in the gut to all the parents.

00:31:36.980 --> 00:31:42.059
You've done a good job. Yep. And he says, you

00:31:42.059 --> 00:31:44.420
know, the Bible, he's right. The Bible has examples

00:31:44.420 --> 00:31:47.299
of good parents that have bad kids and good parents

00:31:47.299 --> 00:31:49.220
that have good kids and bad parents that have

00:31:49.220 --> 00:31:51.559
bad kids and bad parents that have good kids.

00:31:51.599 --> 00:31:54.759
So they're all there. They're all there. Let's

00:31:54.759 --> 00:31:58.130
not. Feel like we have to hide it. Let's not

00:31:58.130 --> 00:32:00.769
feel embarrassed about it. And that's how we

00:32:00.769 --> 00:32:04.630
find others to pray with about this. If we're

00:32:04.630 --> 00:32:07.569
quiet and hide it, we're going to be praying

00:32:07.569 --> 00:32:11.470
all by ourselves on this issue. That gets tricky

00:32:11.470 --> 00:32:15.390
if the grandkids especially or even the parents

00:32:15.390 --> 00:32:20.089
who are around and we're talking about our...

00:32:20.319 --> 00:32:23.079
Oh, of course. We have to be careful with that.

00:32:23.240 --> 00:32:28.880
But you have to get some comradeship, kind of.

00:32:28.900 --> 00:32:32.960
Some others who understand. That's great. So

00:32:32.960 --> 00:32:37.500
right now, if you were to run into somebody,

00:32:37.599 --> 00:32:41.880
if Larry over here were to say, tell me what

00:32:41.880 --> 00:32:45.660
to do. Tell me the next steps I could take and

00:32:45.660 --> 00:32:50.200
tell how you all at... at Legacy Coalition can

00:32:50.200 --> 00:32:53.880
help. With a prodigal? Uh -huh. Yeah. Well, the

00:32:53.880 --> 00:32:57.579
first question I would ask is, can you increase

00:32:57.579 --> 00:33:03.039
your prayer game? Yes. Can you pray more effectively,

00:33:03.480 --> 00:33:08.220
more fervently, more earnestly than you do right

00:33:08.220 --> 00:33:12.299
now? Could you? And join with others to pray

00:33:12.299 --> 00:33:14.700
too. And then can you join with others? Yes.

00:33:15.369 --> 00:33:19.049
I think that sometimes we make power and prayer

00:33:19.049 --> 00:33:22.890
maybe more complicated or more mysterious than

00:33:22.890 --> 00:33:27.529
what it really is. James 5 .16 in New Living

00:33:27.529 --> 00:33:32.309
says the earnest prayer of a righteous person

00:33:32.309 --> 00:33:35.509
has great power and brings wonderful results.

00:33:36.049 --> 00:33:39.009
And there are two qualifiers, Judy. Earnest,

00:33:39.289 --> 00:33:45.460
righteous. what does it just mean i'm sincere

00:33:45.460 --> 00:33:48.859
i mean it means i mean my prayer right i mean

00:33:48.859 --> 00:33:51.619
that's i'm not letting my mind wonder i'm not

00:33:51.619 --> 00:33:54.460
doing it because it's just routine i'm really

00:33:54.460 --> 00:33:58.779
talking to god pouring my heart out to him that's

00:33:58.779 --> 00:34:02.180
what earnest is and then it's talking about righteous

00:34:02.180 --> 00:34:07.450
and i'm so glad that verse is not in romans Because

00:34:07.450 --> 00:34:10.449
Romans says there's none righteous. But, of course,

00:34:10.449 --> 00:34:12.309
it's talking about positional righteousness there.

00:34:12.369 --> 00:34:16.230
James talks about practical righteousness. I

00:34:16.230 --> 00:34:19.590
like you. I agree with these things you're saying.

00:34:20.150 --> 00:34:25.750
So we can have a practical righteousness. It

00:34:25.750 --> 00:34:29.969
doesn't mean we're perfect. It means we're sincere

00:34:29.969 --> 00:34:32.389
in our faith. You know, James talks about our

00:34:32.389 --> 00:34:35.909
works demonstrating our faith. We have a sincere

00:34:35.909 --> 00:34:39.659
faith. And when we do those two things, earnest,

00:34:39.980 --> 00:34:45.179
righteous, has to do with our heart and our relationship

00:34:45.179 --> 00:34:48.199
to God, then we can just expect that God's going

00:34:48.199 --> 00:34:51.599
to have great power in our prayer. Still might

00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:55.420
take a while. Oh, yeah, it might. But that's

00:34:55.420 --> 00:35:00.500
really important. So what resources have you

00:35:00.500 --> 00:35:04.050
all come up with? you can help people with well

00:35:04.050 --> 00:35:07.449
uh you mentioned grand monday nights and uh again

00:35:07.449 --> 00:35:12.570
there are 250 different videos in our library

00:35:12.570 --> 00:35:16.829
there uh a number of which deal with prodigals

00:35:16.829 --> 00:35:21.190
from a from different perspectives i couldn't

00:35:21.190 --> 00:35:23.429
tell you the exact number of how many but i would

00:35:23.429 --> 00:35:27.039
guess there's between five and ten at least of

00:35:27.039 --> 00:35:29.659
those episodes that are all about about that

00:35:29.659 --> 00:35:32.440
topic from from different yeah i've seen several

00:35:32.440 --> 00:35:35.480
that you've yeah that you have and of course

00:35:35.480 --> 00:35:39.119
we have hundreds of blogs or articles yeah i've

00:35:39.119 --> 00:35:41.059
written at least five or six of them you have

00:35:41.059 --> 00:35:45.500
you are one of our bloggers and yes your girl

00:35:45.500 --> 00:35:50.619
likes me yes she sure does she sure does and

00:35:50.619 --> 00:35:56.170
uh and so so If somebody likes to read, they

00:35:56.170 --> 00:35:58.989
can examine the blog. A lot of people don't read

00:35:58.989 --> 00:36:02.170
anymore. If they like to listen, we've got those.

00:36:02.309 --> 00:36:06.010
But you have a whole library, kind of, and a

00:36:06.010 --> 00:36:10.050
whole store. Yep, yep. And then there are resources.

00:36:10.329 --> 00:36:14.610
But I just want to tell you, your writing on

00:36:14.610 --> 00:36:20.530
it, Judy, is some of the best there is. Thank

00:36:20.530 --> 00:36:23.630
you. The books that you've written on praying

00:36:23.630 --> 00:36:26.690
for a prodigal are some of the best ones there

00:36:26.690 --> 00:36:30.150
are. We don't need to, you know. That's okay.

00:36:30.789 --> 00:36:36.130
It's been a gift from God. I wouldn't have chosen

00:36:36.130 --> 00:36:38.789
it. I didn't choose it. The one that is, yeah,

00:36:38.829 --> 00:36:42.309
the one that is 100. 90 Days of Grace for the

00:36:42.309 --> 00:36:44.489
Wilderness is the subtitle. It's just called

00:36:44.489 --> 00:36:48.199
When You Love a Prodigal. That is. Awesome, awesome,

00:36:48.420 --> 00:36:50.780
awesome. I do get an awful lot of good feedback

00:36:50.780 --> 00:36:54.900
on it. I'm sure you do. It's what I learn day

00:36:54.900 --> 00:36:57.559
by day. It's on my desk in my office. Thank you.

00:36:57.559 --> 00:37:01.260
Good. Thank you. Tell me about the different

00:37:01.260 --> 00:37:04.440
card things you have, like the prayer cards and

00:37:04.440 --> 00:37:08.519
the talk cards. Yep, yep. We have three different

00:37:08.519 --> 00:37:12.659
kinds of cards. We have promise cards. Let's

00:37:12.659 --> 00:37:16.800
talk cards and prayer cards. All of those are

00:37:16.800 --> 00:37:19.559
for a grandparent that may say, well, you know,

00:37:19.599 --> 00:37:21.760
I'm just not that creative. I need help coming

00:37:21.760 --> 00:37:26.190
up. I'm glad to. Borrow from somebody else's

00:37:26.190 --> 00:37:27.869
idea, but coming up with... Most people are.

00:37:28.150 --> 00:37:31.210
Yeah, yeah, most people are. So the prayer cards

00:37:31.210 --> 00:37:35.909
are things to pray for or with your grandchild.

00:37:36.110 --> 00:37:39.550
So they are, it's a set of cards, and one side

00:37:39.550 --> 00:37:42.030
of the card has a prayer that the grandparent

00:37:42.030 --> 00:37:45.889
can play and pray, and then a corresponding prayer

00:37:45.889 --> 00:37:48.829
that the grandchild can pray on the other side.

00:37:49.309 --> 00:37:51.289
Let's talk cards. Those are brand new, right?

00:37:51.510 --> 00:37:53.969
They're brand new, brand new product. Then we

00:37:53.969 --> 00:37:57.110
have Let's Talk cards that are conversation starters.

00:37:57.190 --> 00:38:02.510
And they're fun and involving. And serious and

00:38:02.510 --> 00:38:06.929
everything in between. So my youngest grandson

00:38:06.929 --> 00:38:10.650
is now 10. And I often take him to soccer practice.

00:38:10.809 --> 00:38:13.349
And he'll get in my pickup truck with me. And

00:38:13.349 --> 00:38:16.469
right in there, we've got Let's Talk cards. And

00:38:16.469 --> 00:38:19.610
he'll pick it up, and he will leaf through, and

00:38:19.610 --> 00:38:23.530
he'll find one he wants to ask me. And so it's

00:38:23.530 --> 00:38:27.150
always interesting because often the grandkids

00:38:27.150 --> 00:38:30.630
will start the conversations with those. And

00:38:30.630 --> 00:38:36.889
then Promise Cards is 100 promises that... You

00:38:36.889 --> 00:38:39.849
can write your grandchild's name in and stick

00:38:39.849 --> 00:38:44.619
it in a little note to them. put it in a snack

00:38:44.619 --> 00:38:48.360
for them, you know, whatever works. So we try

00:38:48.360 --> 00:38:51.380
to provide tools that will equip grandparents

00:38:51.380 --> 00:38:53.519
for their ministry with their grandkids. And

00:38:53.519 --> 00:38:56.780
one of the things that you have encouraged, though

00:38:56.780 --> 00:39:00.079
you don't do them, I don't think, is camps. That's

00:39:00.079 --> 00:39:03.260
correct. Grand camps or something. Yeah. Christian

00:39:03.260 --> 00:39:06.719
Grandparenting Network, which is a great partner

00:39:06.719 --> 00:39:12.179
of ours in vision and in mission, they run grand

00:39:12.179 --> 00:39:15.920
camps. And they have some. Then there are also

00:39:15.920 --> 00:39:21.719
a lot of Christian camps that do grandparent,

00:39:21.800 --> 00:39:24.739
grandchild weekends as well. Oh, I wasn't aware

00:39:24.739 --> 00:39:28.280
of that. Yeah, yeah. That's good. Getting more

00:39:28.280 --> 00:39:31.260
and more all the time. Well, I think people are

00:39:31.260 --> 00:39:34.530
realizing. the value and the importance and the

00:39:34.530 --> 00:39:37.889
necessity. As life out there gets more and more

00:39:37.889 --> 00:39:42.369
challenging, there's more need for us to make

00:39:42.369 --> 00:39:46.889
sure that grandparents can always be a part of

00:39:46.889 --> 00:39:50.050
the life, but that can step in where there's

00:39:50.050 --> 00:39:56.530
pain or need or neglect or especially divorces

00:39:56.530 --> 00:40:02.119
and that. So final words. What would you want

00:40:02.119 --> 00:40:06.739
to say to people out there who love a prodigal

00:40:06.739 --> 00:40:10.639
who could gain from what you're doing? I think

00:40:10.639 --> 00:40:15.360
the greatest purpose in life is found in the

00:40:15.360 --> 00:40:18.360
grandparent years. I think the greatest purpose.

00:40:19.559 --> 00:40:22.579
For the grandparents? For the grandparents. And

00:40:22.579 --> 00:40:25.780
eventually, actually, for the whole family. Yes,

00:40:25.800 --> 00:40:30.389
because... The purpose for a grandparent is not

00:40:30.389 --> 00:40:34.030
found in what you do. It's found in who you are,

00:40:34.050 --> 00:40:37.750
in being the patriarch and matriarch of your

00:40:37.750 --> 00:40:41.570
family. What an incredible privilege it is to

00:40:41.570 --> 00:40:44.829
be in a position where you can love people into

00:40:44.829 --> 00:40:52.079
eternity. And guide them. What an amazing thing.

00:40:52.300 --> 00:40:56.880
And like I said earlier on, I want everybody

00:40:56.880 --> 00:40:59.719
to catch the passion that I have, and I know

00:40:59.719 --> 00:41:04.119
you have too, Judy, the passion that overwhelms

00:41:04.119 --> 00:41:06.679
every other passion in life, and that is I want

00:41:06.679 --> 00:41:09.619
my grandkids in heaven with me. The closer I

00:41:09.619 --> 00:41:13.300
get, the more I think about it, and the more

00:41:13.300 --> 00:41:15.800
I think about it, the more I want my whole family

00:41:15.800 --> 00:41:19.239
there. And I want to spend my hours and weeks

00:41:19.239 --> 00:41:25.380
and years doing everything I can to be an instrument

00:41:25.380 --> 00:41:28.539
of the Holy Spirit in bringing them to faith.

00:41:28.800 --> 00:41:33.949
Thank you, Larry. a wonderful conversation my

00:41:33.949 --> 00:41:39.110
topic for sure but um to my listeners i'm gonna

00:41:39.110 --> 00:41:43.070
put in the show notes um three different resources

00:41:43.070 --> 00:41:47.250
that you all have that i'm offering to give away

00:41:47.250 --> 00:41:52.110
so if you listeners would like to go to the show

00:41:52.110 --> 00:41:54.469
notes and pick one of those that you would really

00:41:54.469 --> 00:41:58.309
like Just indicate that and do what it says to

00:41:58.309 --> 00:42:01.030
let us know and you'll be in a drawing to get

00:42:01.030 --> 00:42:04.110
a free one. But I'll also tell you how to go

00:42:04.110 --> 00:42:07.250
buy them for yourself too in case you're not

00:42:07.250 --> 00:42:11.639
the one who wins. Thank you and blessings on

00:42:11.639 --> 00:42:17.139
you with your intentional grandparenting. I just,

00:42:17.239 --> 00:42:21.000
I love that concept and what you're doing with

00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:23.840
Legacy Coalition, but all the different ways

00:42:23.840 --> 00:42:28.239
that God has led because grandparents play an

00:42:28.239 --> 00:42:34.239
essential, important role in making sure, contributing

00:42:34.239 --> 00:42:39.000
to how our grandchildren get to know Jesus, get

00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:43.280
to walk with God, get to find why he made them

00:42:43.280 --> 00:42:46.820
and what his purposes for them are. What a privilege.

00:42:47.059 --> 00:42:49.579
Thank you very much. You're welcome. Glad to

00:42:49.579 --> 00:42:50.219
be with you, Judy.