Can You Love the Holidays When You Love a Prodigal? Interview with Dena Yohe

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Welcome back to When You Love a Prodigal podcast.

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I am so glad that you are here. And I can promise

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you that if you love a prodigal and you listen

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here, you will discover help and hope for your

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wilderness journey right here. And you will also

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find help and hope for your own life journey.

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And today you're going to learn. what it's going

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to be like to survive and thrive during the holidays,

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even when you love a prodigal. I am so excited

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about my guest today. Dina, Yohi, and I have

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known each other for many, many years. We've

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worked together, but we were especially drawn

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together because we've both been on a prodigal

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journey. Gratefully, both of our prodigals are

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in a good place right now, and we are so happy

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about that. But it isn't ever given that that

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will always be true. We've had our ups and downs

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several times. It's been quite a learning experience

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for each of us. We've prayed for each other.

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We've encouraged each other. We've given wisdom.

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And we've kind of taken it different directions.

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It's really exciting to see what Dina and her

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husband Tom have done. They founded and lead

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a ministry called Hope for Hurting Parents. It's

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a wonderful ministry that provides resources

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and support groups for parents who are hurting

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over the destructive behaviors or choices of

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their teen to adult children. And I send people

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to her a lot because she actually has more resources.

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a way to care for them. Her support groups are

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just fabulous. Their experience grows out of

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their journey with their daughter, who was the

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inspiration for Bright Love on Her Arms. And

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some of you certainly know about that. organization.

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Dina has a book called You Are Not Alone. And

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that's what her ministry is to make sure people

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are not alone when they're on this journey. Her

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husband, Tom, has a book coming out called Moments

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of Clarity, Wisdom from the Father of a Prodigal.

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And I've had the privilege of reading it. And

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dads, you are going to be so blessed by this

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book. And so moms, if, you know, if If your dad's

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not listening, if the dad's not listening, you

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make sure he gets this book. It'll be out soon.

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So I wish I had the date so I could tell you.

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So I also want to tell you that as a special

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thank you gift for listening to When You Love

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a Prodigal, this time I'm going to give away

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two copies of Dina's book. And those will go

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to the third and ninth people who write to me

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at the place in the show notes that says, write

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to Judy. Now, as we begin, I have a little assignment

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for you as the listener also. Dina and I would

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love to hear how the holidays have been difficult

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for you with a prodigal. And we'd like to know

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if the helps that we have shared today, that

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we will share today, will be especially helpful

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to you. Which one? Which did you get the most

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out of or think you can apply the best? So why

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don't you even keep some notes while you're listening

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to us? Because this is longer than my usual time

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together. And so I don't want you to forget what

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we say at the beginning. I promise if you write,

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I will respond, and two of you will receive Dina's

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book. So, Dina, welcome. Thank you, Judy. It's

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great to be here. I'm so glad you're here. And

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I am eager to hear your answer to this question.

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Can you love the holidays when you love a prodigal?

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Well, I didn't think you could. You know, I think

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it's possible, but it takes some work and effort

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to get to the place where you can. So it doesn't

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just happen naturally, but there are some things

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you can do to be proactive so that that can happen.

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And those are some things we're going to talk

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about. Yes. But first, why don't you just take

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a few minutes to tell a little about yourself

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and the journey that you've had with your prodigal.

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I'd love to. Well, it started for me when my

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daughter was 12 years old and she cut herself

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the first time. She had been a challenging child.

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in her younger years and we just thought she

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was stubborn and difficult. What we didn't know

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was that she had a sensory processing disorder

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which caused her to be overly sensitive to external

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stimulus, so sounds and taste and touch. And

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it caused her to be more easily irritable, agitated,

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have trouble interacting and relating with people.

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And we just didn't know what was the cause behind

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this. So the first sign that something was...

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really wrong was when she cut herself. Now, we

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handled that very poorly. We were so shocked,

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didn't know why she would do such a thing or

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what it could mean, and we chose to just not

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deal with it. Swept under the carpet, threatened

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her that this was, you don't do this, this isn't

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good. If you ever do this again, you'll have

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to see a counselor. Like, that would be a punishment,

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which was so wrong. And we have since... apologized

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to her and told her, we're so sorry we did that.

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But we were clueless. We didn't understand. So

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it started there. Over time, she ended up with

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difficulties self -medicating with alcohol and

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pot and just got involved in a very destructive

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lifestyle. Found out she had other mental health

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issues that we didn't know about. Depression,

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anxiety were a few of them. And ended up in rehab

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when her friends were going to college. Over

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to the next 10 years, we wrestled with her back

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and forth, in and out of recovery, and all of

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the trauma that she experienced with that. So

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that took us down a long road that we didn't

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know where or if it would ever end. So that's

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a little bit of our journey. And there were suicide

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attempts. She was also raped, and that's not

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uncommon. A lot of your worst nightmares coming

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true. Every time I hear you tell that story,

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it just breaks my heart again. For your pain,

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but also for hers. And what she was suffering

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in order to be doing the things that she was

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doing. Most people don't do them for no reason.

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And so that's a hard thing. Can you get maybe

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a story or two of some of the hard things that

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you had to go through? Well, when she went into

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rehab the first time, I had total expectations

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of this was it. She was going to be fixed. Everything

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was going to be good from now on. And it was

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good for three years. And then when she fell

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back and there was a reoccurrence or a relapse,

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I was devastated. I never expected it. I didn't

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think that would ever happen. I was not prepared

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for it. I went into a depression and just a lot

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of doubting God. Why? How? What next? And she

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struggled for years up and down after that. So

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that was one really hard occasion. The other

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was when we learned that she had been raped,

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the first time when we found that out. And she

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had reacted so strongly. She felt so horrible

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about what happened. She had cut herself badly

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and was in the hospital in a psych ward. And

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through her dad sitting with her all night, just

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listening and loving on her, being there for

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her, she told what had happened. That was another

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devastating occurrence. That was one of my worst

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fears for her in this destructive life that she

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was on, that that could happen. But I had prayed

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and prayed. And when it did happen, I just...

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I was so angry. I was mad at God. I was mad at

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the people that hurt her. And I was so deeply

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sorrowful over it. And I think the next one would

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be when she lost her dearest friend, and I was

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sure we would lose her, too. Yeah, we had that.

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I just was writing about that. that when our

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son's grandfather died, his birth grandfather,

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we thought he would take his life. Yeah, that's

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hard. Yes, so frightening. Yeah. You don't know

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what to do. Right, true. Well, since we want

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to talk about the holidays a little and how they're

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often challenging when you have a prodigal, can

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you tell us a story of a particularly challenging

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holiday time? Well, one was when our daughter

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had moved out and she was just floating from

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place to place, didn't really have anywhere she

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was staying. We didn't really know if we were

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going to see her or not. So we had no expectations.

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But it was such a sad time because things were

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so different. She wouldn't be with us to go to

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church on Christmas Eve. There wouldn't be the

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special family breakfast together. And then I

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ended up being out of town, needing to go to

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help my father, who was in the hospital and not

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doing well. So I wasn't even there. So it was

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just my husband and her brother and sister. And

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she did end up coming, but only for like an hour.

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I don't think she brought gifts. She just came

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expecting something. And it was just such a sad

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time. The pictures my husband took for me, the

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expressions on everyone's face, you could just

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almost feel the sadness and the tension. Things

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were not like they had been in the past. And

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that was a hard one, very hard. Another one that's

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almost a little humorous was in her first rehab,

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she was there over Thanksgiving. Well, we chose

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to all go and be with her. And we were one of

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those families at Cracker Barrel having our Thanksgiving

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dinner with our daughter, who was actually just

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let go for the afternoon, not for an overnight.

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So that was another. We laugh about it now. There

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we were at Cracker Barrel, one of our neighborhood

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restaurants with other people who didn't have

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anywhere else to go. With our son. Yeah, you

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try and appreciate what you do have, that you

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have them at all. But it's hard when it's very

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different and your expectations are not met.

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Yeah, I can remember times when our son, we didn't

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know if he would show up or not. He lived with

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us many times, but then he would. go live with

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a friend or something. And at one point, this

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was one of the hardest things. He came home,

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and he wasn't supposed to stay at home because

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he had repeatedly violated our conditions. We

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said, we would love to have you here, but it

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has to be under these circumstances. And so he

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had left, and he'd been gone. to Tennessee to

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live with a friend, and he couldn't get a job.

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So he came home, and he showed up. And we're

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like, okay. So, you know, we let him stay for

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a night, and then he stayed for another night.

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And then my daughter said, so if he's staying,

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I'm leaving. And I went, oh, great. I get to

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choose between my children. And so he left. And

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he went and lived for six months sleeping on

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the couch over friends. And it's, you know, those

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things are hard and it makes it hard for the

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holidays. When the main, I think, they don't

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come because they think they're judged perhaps

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or it's disapproval is there or they come to

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get. what you might give them but it's not a

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very often it's not a good bonding time a good

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happy time together and that's hard yeah I think

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they know that we're not happy with whatever

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it is they're doing yes and they even we try

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not to say anything but they feel it they feel

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our disapproval our disappointment and I tried

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to put myself in my daughter's shoes, and that's

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got to be hard. It is. So we tried hard to just

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lavish love and speak positively, words of hope

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and confidence. It was hard to really believe

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it, but we wanted to say it because we knew it

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was possible. We wanted her to believe it. But

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yes, they feel that. So I wouldn't want to go

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where I felt that tension. No, I agree. I understand

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that. But it's still... Hard for the family.

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Oh, yes. And the siblings. And if it's a grown,

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you know, an adult, there's still there's the

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tension that's there. And you don't know, especially

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if they're, you know, on drugs or alcohol, you

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don't know what's going to come. Yes. What did

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they bring with them if they go out? At midnight,

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when are they going to come back? How are they

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going to come back? In what condition? Yes. Those

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are very hard things. So what do you think some

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of the issues are that would create, one, the

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choices they make, the things that draw them

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into this destructive lifestyle? And then what

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are the issues that bring them back and cause

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the tensions? That's a little hard question to

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answer, I know. But I'm just trying to think

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how we help our listeners to get a handle on

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what's going on. Well, sometimes, like with our

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daughter, there were root issues that we didn't

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even know about. And there was trauma that she

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had experienced. And it doesn't even have to

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be something terrible, like this big thing. For

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her, one of those issues was that she had been

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bullied when she was younger. And it made a big

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impact on her, how she felt about herself. But

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we didn't even really understand that until years

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later when she told us. So there could be things

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like that. affect them with how they think about

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themselves, how they feel about themselves, the

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lies they believe about themselves. It's hard

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for us to know how to address them if we're not

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aware of them. But those are some of the things.

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Sometimes it's the fact that we tried so hard.

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So as Christian parents who were involved in

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ministry, our children were everything to us.

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And we did our best. to teach them what we believe

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and give them that foundation. So when we see

00:16:35.019 --> 00:16:38.500
them struggling or veering off into another direction

00:16:38.500 --> 00:16:41.860
that we're concerned about, we do everything

00:16:41.860 --> 00:16:45.620
we can to pull them back. And then out of our

00:16:45.620 --> 00:16:48.860
good intentions, we may lecture a little too

00:16:48.860 --> 00:16:52.740
much. We come on too strong. We keep correcting

00:16:52.740 --> 00:16:57.879
them. And without realizing it, we're being critical.

00:16:58.759 --> 00:17:03.220
A lot. And they feel that. And sometimes they

00:17:03.220 --> 00:17:06.299
live into it. Well, if they say this, then maybe

00:17:06.299 --> 00:17:09.880
I am that way. But again, that's hard to overcome.

00:17:10.299 --> 00:17:13.559
I've heard of some people tell us when they were

00:17:13.559 --> 00:17:16.440
parents, when their children were younger, they

00:17:16.440 --> 00:17:19.579
now know a lot of the mistakes they made that

00:17:19.579 --> 00:17:22.259
they didn't realize at the time when they were

00:17:22.259 --> 00:17:24.259
always correcting them or when they were bringing

00:17:24.259 --> 00:17:27.559
out their faults. But in an attempt to help them,

00:17:27.640 --> 00:17:31.859
but their children ended up kind of locking on

00:17:31.859 --> 00:17:36.500
to those things about themselves. And it was

00:17:36.500 --> 00:17:38.759
hard for them to believe that they could be different

00:17:38.759 --> 00:17:43.660
or that maybe it wasn't really true. It's hard

00:17:43.660 --> 00:17:47.960
for them to believe that they can ever be good

00:17:47.960 --> 00:17:55.180
enough to. And if my parents. have disappointment

00:17:55.180 --> 00:17:59.220
than certainly the rest of the world was. And

00:17:59.220 --> 00:18:05.019
that's a hard place. Our son, of course, he had

00:18:05.019 --> 00:18:09.480
lots of reasons to have issues. And we did know

00:18:09.480 --> 00:18:13.220
about some of them, but we didn't know. how that

00:18:13.220 --> 00:18:17.039
played out very well he was almost nine when

00:18:17.039 --> 00:18:20.059
he yes almost 10 when he came to live with us

00:18:20.059 --> 00:18:23.140
first as a foster child and then we adopted him

00:18:23.140 --> 00:18:26.160
but he could barely read or write so when we

00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:28.299
send him to school and the grade he's supposedly

00:18:28.299 --> 00:18:32.559
in he's he can't do the work so we had to come

00:18:32.559 --> 00:18:34.660
in and do something about that. But he didn't

00:18:34.660 --> 00:18:37.740
like what we had to do to try to catch him up.

00:18:37.900 --> 00:18:41.019
But his dad was never in his life. His mother

00:18:41.019 --> 00:18:45.920
chose her addictions. And half the time, he would

00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:48.980
be at his grandparents because she would disappear.

00:18:49.299 --> 00:18:52.319
And, you know, so he had lots of real trauma

00:18:52.319 --> 00:18:55.420
in his life. And so that causes you to have a

00:18:55.420 --> 00:18:58.539
little more compassion than you would. But there

00:18:58.539 --> 00:19:02.710
are things that are traumatic to kids that creates

00:19:02.710 --> 00:19:06.589
some of these kinds of actions that we have no

00:19:06.589 --> 00:19:11.490
clue. And just things like the tension between

00:19:11.490 --> 00:19:14.230
an older sibling and a younger one. If they're

00:19:14.230 --> 00:19:17.029
born really close together, the older one can

00:19:17.029 --> 00:19:20.009
often feel like... I got kicked out of mom's

00:19:20.009 --> 00:19:24.109
lap too soon. And the other one can feel like,

00:19:24.130 --> 00:19:26.430
well, they really like that one better than they

00:19:26.430 --> 00:19:30.670
like me. And so normal sibling rivalry can still

00:19:30.670 --> 00:19:34.849
create trauma in a person's life. And so then

00:19:34.849 --> 00:19:37.529
they don't know who they are and what to do.

00:19:37.930 --> 00:19:42.549
And most of us in more our generation, you're

00:19:42.549 --> 00:19:47.450
younger than I am, but would have a little bit

00:19:47.450 --> 00:19:51.339
more of a, toe -the -line kind of attitude. And

00:19:51.339 --> 00:19:55.039
especially with a Christian perspective, we want

00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:58.119
them to represent the Lord well as well. We want

00:19:58.119 --> 00:20:01.279
them to know him and his love, but we still like

00:20:01.279 --> 00:20:04.539
them to act like they belong to him. And, you

00:20:04.539 --> 00:20:07.160
know, they may not be there yet. Right, right.

00:20:08.039 --> 00:20:14.640
So how do we approach the holidays? And understanding

00:20:14.640 --> 00:20:18.519
some of this, recognizing that when we went through

00:20:18.519 --> 00:20:20.380
it, we didn't really know what we were doing,

00:20:20.480 --> 00:20:24.119
but hoping we can help these people do a better

00:20:24.119 --> 00:20:28.180
job than we did. What are some things that will

00:20:28.180 --> 00:20:31.660
help us get through this? It could be a very

00:20:31.660 --> 00:20:34.599
hard time. It might not be, but it could be.

00:20:36.039 --> 00:20:39.759
How do we mitigate against the tension and conflict?

00:20:40.220 --> 00:20:43.799
Well, the holidays are really hard for parents

00:20:43.799 --> 00:20:48.019
who have troubled children. You know, the media,

00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:52.579
TV commercials, movie, they all give us this

00:20:52.579 --> 00:20:56.819
picture of perfect families, everybody happy,

00:20:57.140 --> 00:21:01.109
there's no problems, or they're very minor. And

00:21:01.109 --> 00:21:04.869
so we have very unrealistic expectations. And

00:21:04.869 --> 00:21:07.930
because we feel like this issue is getting through

00:21:07.930 --> 00:21:10.930
the holidays is so hard for parents. It's one

00:21:10.930 --> 00:21:13.309
of the topics that we include in our support

00:21:13.309 --> 00:21:18.490
group material. And we offer five tips that really

00:21:18.490 --> 00:21:21.630
helped us that we share with parents. And the

00:21:21.630 --> 00:21:24.549
first one deals with those expectations. And

00:21:24.549 --> 00:21:29.690
we say lower or adjust your expectations. When

00:21:29.690 --> 00:21:33.490
you do that, then you're able to just accept

00:21:33.490 --> 00:21:36.089
whatever happens. Because, you know, if you expect

00:21:36.089 --> 00:21:38.509
your child to come and behave a certain way,

00:21:38.690 --> 00:21:43.069
bring a gift, show appreciation to you, enjoy

00:21:43.069 --> 00:21:45.950
being with the family. They might be sulking

00:21:45.950 --> 00:21:47.869
back in their room. They want to play their video

00:21:47.869 --> 00:21:52.589
game or what have you. You can be hurt and then

00:21:52.589 --> 00:21:58.359
angry. Yeah, anger comes. Yes. Yes. And, you

00:21:58.359 --> 00:22:00.940
know, when we're hurt, that is often our response.

00:22:01.019 --> 00:22:03.599
We get angry. And often we don't even realize,

00:22:03.819 --> 00:22:06.619
well, I thought she would do such and such. I

00:22:06.619 --> 00:22:09.059
thought he would. And then when they don't, we

00:22:09.059 --> 00:22:12.160
just feel this bad feelings. And we, what am

00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:14.940
I feeling? Why am I feeling this way? Well, it's

00:22:14.940 --> 00:22:17.880
because we had an expectation that they were

00:22:17.880 --> 00:22:20.960
not able to meet. So the first that helps so

00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:24.190
much is just lowering. those expectations. Number

00:22:24.190 --> 00:22:27.289
one is lowering expectations. Yes. Number two

00:22:27.289 --> 00:22:31.710
is to consider doing things differently. For

00:22:31.710 --> 00:22:35.089
your holiday, if you always did your meal a certain

00:22:35.089 --> 00:22:37.829
way, a certain time of day, or a certain place,

00:22:38.069 --> 00:22:42.869
and them maybe not being there or being there

00:22:42.869 --> 00:22:45.690
but making things more difficult and tense, you

00:22:45.690 --> 00:22:48.789
might want to just change it up. Do it a different

00:22:48.789 --> 00:22:53.700
way. So number two is consider doing things differently.

00:22:54.079 --> 00:22:58.180
And, again, it might be with church. If you always

00:22:58.180 --> 00:23:00.539
went on Christmas Eve, opened your presents Christmas

00:23:00.539 --> 00:23:04.200
Eve, well, maybe do it in the morning on the

00:23:04.200 --> 00:23:06.779
actual day. So, again, your traditions, consider

00:23:06.779 --> 00:23:08.960
what they are. And if it's going to make you

00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:13.839
feel worse, more sad, upset, consider changing

00:23:13.839 --> 00:23:16.920
it. So that's number two. Okay. That's good.

00:23:17.039 --> 00:23:23.079
Number three is. Avoid social media. Again, seeing

00:23:23.079 --> 00:23:28.259
everybody's pictures and happy family, enjoying

00:23:28.259 --> 00:23:31.720
each other, it just makes you feel so much worse.

00:23:31.759 --> 00:23:34.420
You're comparing what you don't have, what you

00:23:34.420 --> 00:23:37.140
wish you had, or you're longing for the past

00:23:37.140 --> 00:23:40.480
that isn't that way anymore. It just makes you

00:23:40.480 --> 00:23:44.759
feel more resentful. and maybe bitter. So, you

00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:47.059
know, just stepping away from Facebook, Twitter,

00:23:47.220 --> 00:23:49.400
Instagram, wherever you tend to spend your time

00:23:49.400 --> 00:23:53.039
is so healthy for you. And you might even decide

00:23:53.039 --> 00:23:56.740
not to go back. That wouldn't be a bad decision,

00:23:56.819 --> 00:23:59.680
probably. I think about it once in a while. Me

00:23:59.680 --> 00:24:04.319
too. So number three is avoid social media. Number

00:24:04.319 --> 00:24:10.240
four is focus on others. It always helps. Me,

00:24:10.240 --> 00:24:12.640
when I'm having a hard time, I'm feeling sad

00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:15.680
or down or upset about something. If I can find

00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:19.000
someone else who has a need and I can do anything

00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:23.339
for them, it takes my attention off of me and

00:24:23.339 --> 00:24:26.160
I'm not feeling sorry for myself when I'm helping

00:24:26.160 --> 00:24:30.759
someone else. It always uplifts me. My mood brightens.

00:24:30.980 --> 00:24:33.660
So it might be as simple as making a phone call,

00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:37.359
sending a card or an email, or you might be more

00:24:37.359 --> 00:24:40.349
active and bring them a small gift. A box of

00:24:40.349 --> 00:24:43.430
candy, some flowers. You can do as much or as

00:24:43.430 --> 00:24:46.809
little as you want and feel that you're able.

00:24:47.009 --> 00:24:50.750
But it really does help you feel better. So number

00:24:50.750 --> 00:24:55.029
four, focus on others. And the last one, number

00:24:55.029 --> 00:24:59.569
five, is be grateful. Now, you know, it's the

00:24:59.569 --> 00:25:02.349
last thing we want to do. We're not feeling that

00:25:02.349 --> 00:25:05.490
way. We don't feel thankful or grateful. We're

00:25:05.490 --> 00:25:08.990
just sad and we're mad and we're down and depressed.

00:25:09.769 --> 00:25:14.990
But if we can find something each day to give

00:25:14.990 --> 00:25:17.769
thanks for, even just the sun came up or you

00:25:17.769 --> 00:25:20.730
got out of bed or you had a great cup of coffee

00:25:20.730 --> 00:25:25.230
or tea, you can change your perspective and your

00:25:25.230 --> 00:25:28.710
outlook. And this was the biggest surprise for

00:25:28.710 --> 00:25:32.430
me on my total recovery journey. I had no idea

00:25:32.430 --> 00:25:36.210
how gratitude could change my perspective about

00:25:36.210 --> 00:25:39.970
everything, especially with my daughter. And

00:25:39.970 --> 00:25:43.609
since the last two podcasts have been about gratitude,

00:25:44.009 --> 00:25:48.809
that's a perfect thing to say once more. Because

00:25:48.809 --> 00:25:51.769
what I say in these two I did, the last two,

00:25:51.970 --> 00:25:55.930
I talked about that this has been the life -changing

00:25:55.930 --> 00:25:59.089
thing for me, is learning to do just what we're

00:25:59.089 --> 00:26:02.599
told in Scripture, give thanks. in everything.

00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:06.539
Pray about everything with thanksgiving. And

00:26:06.539 --> 00:26:10.779
it changes me. It may not change the circumstances

00:26:10.779 --> 00:26:14.619
at all. And I don't have control over this person.

00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:17.759
I have some control when they're younger. But

00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:20.339
when they get older, I really don't have control.

00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:26.690
And it reminds me of two One is Bob Goff, who

00:26:26.690 --> 00:26:30.930
talks about love does and the way that love acts

00:26:30.930 --> 00:26:33.390
toward people and the way it cares about people

00:26:33.390 --> 00:26:38.930
and reaches out and steps around over anything,

00:26:39.170 --> 00:26:42.289
the hard things in order to keep loving. And

00:26:42.289 --> 00:26:46.329
the other is a ministry that. focuses on the

00:26:46.329 --> 00:26:48.750
Middle East and caring for the people who are

00:26:48.750 --> 00:26:52.890
displaced and everything. And their name is Preemptive

00:26:52.890 --> 00:26:56.730
Love, but they have a T -shirt that says Love

00:26:56.730 --> 00:27:01.690
Anyway. And I think that people who have prodigals

00:27:01.690 --> 00:27:04.349
in their lives, that's a good thing they could

00:27:04.349 --> 00:27:07.210
learn is love anyway. That should be our mantra.

00:27:07.509 --> 00:27:11.829
Yes. Now, it doesn't mean that we accept in appropriate

00:27:11.829 --> 00:27:15.640
or unacceptable, but maybe... There are things

00:27:15.640 --> 00:27:18.779
that are more acceptable or could be than we

00:27:18.779 --> 00:27:21.900
have made them if we can learn to love them no

00:27:21.900 --> 00:27:28.000
matter what. And they can be, oh, feel welcome.

00:27:28.740 --> 00:27:33.220
Feeling welcome is huge. And one of the things

00:27:33.220 --> 00:27:35.319
that you and I have talked about before and which

00:27:35.319 --> 00:27:38.220
is God has really worked on me is the whole concept

00:27:38.220 --> 00:27:43.900
of maintaining relationship. And we tend to.

00:27:44.319 --> 00:27:48.880
So easily put some... requirements for them to

00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:53.279
be part of us and with us. And yes, we can't

00:27:53.279 --> 00:27:56.519
have them be abusive and everything, but we can

00:27:56.519 --> 00:28:00.319
certainly do everything possible to keep welcoming

00:28:00.319 --> 00:28:04.519
arms and maintaining relationship because they

00:28:04.519 --> 00:28:07.299
already know what we think about what they're

00:28:07.299 --> 00:28:10.180
doing. And so we don't have to keep telling them.

00:28:10.259 --> 00:28:14.819
They know. So you want to name those five again?

00:28:15.079 --> 00:28:19.519
Yes. Lower expectations. Do things differently.

00:28:21.140 --> 00:28:27.660
Avoid social media. Focus on others. And be grateful.

00:28:29.160 --> 00:28:31.680
That's great. And what kind of response do people

00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:36.579
give you when they try these things in your groups,

00:28:36.640 --> 00:28:39.079
your support groups? Yes. Well, you know, sometimes

00:28:39.079 --> 00:28:40.859
they're like, oh, I don't know if I can do that.

00:28:40.980 --> 00:28:43.259
Oh, that sounds hard. And we just encourage them,

00:28:43.319 --> 00:28:46.049
you know, ask God to help you. Ask him to show

00:28:46.049 --> 00:28:49.390
you which one maybe you need to focus on. And

00:28:49.390 --> 00:28:52.230
overwhelmingly, with the first one, lowering

00:28:52.230 --> 00:28:55.390
expectations, we have almost everyone coming

00:28:55.390 --> 00:28:59.930
back to us and say, oh, you know, it wasn't easy,

00:29:00.069 --> 00:29:03.710
but I was able to do that, and it helped me so

00:29:03.710 --> 00:29:08.170
much that I was okay with whatever happened.

00:29:08.769 --> 00:29:11.130
I could be thankful for it. And if they didn't

00:29:11.130 --> 00:29:13.349
call or they didn't come or they came but didn't

00:29:13.349 --> 00:29:16.799
have a gift, I was all right because I wasn't

00:29:16.799 --> 00:29:22.359
expecting it. So that's been a big one. Then

00:29:22.359 --> 00:29:26.500
another one is definitely gratitude. Because,

00:29:26.539 --> 00:29:29.160
again, you're shifting your focus instead of

00:29:29.160 --> 00:29:31.720
what you want to have happen, what you need to

00:29:31.720 --> 00:29:35.500
be okay or to have joy, to be able to enjoy the

00:29:35.500 --> 00:29:39.460
holidays. You can just be grateful for so much

00:29:39.460 --> 00:29:44.299
more. God loves us. He's with us. We have a life

00:29:44.299 --> 00:29:46.519
that he's given us. We have other people who

00:29:46.519 --> 00:29:49.279
love us and want to be with us, part of our family,

00:29:49.339 --> 00:29:55.210
our friends. It really shifts. So those two things

00:29:55.210 --> 00:29:59.049
we get a lot of responses to. That sounds so

00:29:59.049 --> 00:30:03.670
wonderful. And I think that I would just encourage

00:30:03.670 --> 00:30:08.529
our listeners to recognize that they can play

00:30:08.529 --> 00:30:12.970
a major part in making this not a bad situation,

00:30:13.329 --> 00:30:16.190
whether it's Thanksgiving, Christmas, or other

00:30:16.190 --> 00:30:20.250
things. I'll tell you an example of mine. This

00:30:20.250 --> 00:30:22.509
was not that. It was a birthday. It was my daughter

00:30:22.509 --> 00:30:25.650
Debbie's 21st birthday. And we were having a

00:30:25.650 --> 00:30:28.710
family dinner. And he was going somewhere with

00:30:28.710 --> 00:30:31.910
some friends. I said, just be back for Debbie's

00:30:31.910 --> 00:30:35.849
dinner. Well, he didn't come and he didn't come.

00:30:36.150 --> 00:30:38.759
And this was. We didn't all have cell phones

00:30:38.759 --> 00:30:43.539
then. And so eventually he called and he says,

00:30:43.640 --> 00:30:46.380
well, they weren't ready to leave and I couldn't

00:30:46.380 --> 00:30:50.039
come yet. I said, well, then we'll go ahead and

00:30:50.039 --> 00:30:55.319
eat dinner. And he said, no, you can't do that.

00:30:55.420 --> 00:30:58.750
It's like I'm not part of the family. Guilt,

00:30:58.769 --> 00:31:02.849
guilt, guilt. And so I'm thinking, so do I honor

00:31:02.849 --> 00:31:07.970
my daughter or do I try to make sure my son knows

00:31:07.970 --> 00:31:10.490
that he really is part of the family? But what

00:31:10.490 --> 00:31:14.410
I did was I got really angry, as angry as I could

00:31:14.410 --> 00:31:16.670
remember getting. He said, how dare you put me

00:31:16.670 --> 00:31:20.269
in this position? I don't want to choose between

00:31:20.269 --> 00:31:26.339
my children. And so I had to go. While the family's

00:31:26.339 --> 00:31:29.220
all waiting for him to come. I went up to our

00:31:29.220 --> 00:31:31.960
room and I just talked to the Lord. And I came

00:31:31.960 --> 00:31:35.380
back and I said, we will wait 15 more minutes.

00:31:35.880 --> 00:31:37.960
And then if he's not here, we're going to go

00:31:37.960 --> 00:31:40.500
ahead and eat. And sure enough, he hadn't gotten

00:31:40.500 --> 00:31:42.559
there, but he got there not too long afterwards.

00:31:42.960 --> 00:31:45.460
And he was just glad we were still at the table

00:31:45.460 --> 00:31:50.099
eating. And it all turned out. But if I had confronted

00:31:50.099 --> 00:31:53.440
him. with the attitude that I had, the anger

00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:56.059
that I was feeling, he would have turned around

00:31:56.059 --> 00:31:58.339
and left. And I don't know when we would have

00:31:58.339 --> 00:32:01.160
seen him. He'd walked out before. You did such

00:32:01.160 --> 00:32:04.079
a good job of letting him know that he was valued,

00:32:04.319 --> 00:32:06.660
that he mattered, and keeping the connection.

00:32:06.940 --> 00:32:11.440
And connection is so important. A friend of mine

00:32:11.440 --> 00:32:13.759
who works in the area of addiction with families,

00:32:13.940 --> 00:32:17.220
she goes so far as to say that the opposite of

00:32:17.220 --> 00:32:21.650
addiction is connection. So, yes, they definitely

00:32:21.650 --> 00:32:26.609
crave that and want that. And if we can keep

00:32:26.609 --> 00:32:29.470
pressing in, keep doing the best we can to show

00:32:29.470 --> 00:32:32.069
love and acceptance, speaking to them positively,

00:32:32.390 --> 00:32:39.150
hopefully for their futures, it really can open

00:32:39.150 --> 00:32:43.369
that door where they feel more welcomed and more

00:32:43.369 --> 00:32:47.450
comfortable when they are with us. It kind of

00:32:47.450 --> 00:32:52.950
reminds me of Luke 15, of when the prodigal returns

00:32:52.950 --> 00:32:57.690
home, having wasted his whole inheritance, and

00:32:57.690 --> 00:33:03.470
his brother's been working hard. His brother's

00:33:03.470 --> 00:33:06.789
resentful of him taking that portion of their

00:33:06.789 --> 00:33:10.170
income and everything. So he comes back, and

00:33:10.170 --> 00:33:14.349
he's coming humbly and repentant. But his dad

00:33:14.349 --> 00:33:18.250
didn't even know that yet. His dad, all he knew

00:33:18.250 --> 00:33:23.009
was, my son was lost, and now he's here. And

00:33:23.009 --> 00:33:25.930
he needs to know that I love him and that he's

00:33:25.930 --> 00:33:30.009
welcome. And so the boy's down on his knees saying,

00:33:30.230 --> 00:33:35.900
Father. I've sinned against you, and I repent,

00:33:36.119 --> 00:33:38.920
and just let me be a servant. He wouldn't even

00:33:38.920 --> 00:33:41.859
let him finish talking. He just grabs him in

00:33:41.859 --> 00:33:47.619
his arms, throws his robe on him, and of course

00:33:47.619 --> 00:33:49.660
the older son was angry. So then you have the

00:33:49.660 --> 00:33:53.259
other side of the tension that can occur. I know

00:33:53.259 --> 00:33:58.329
our older daughter really... One time she said

00:33:58.329 --> 00:34:01.130
to me, she said, why do you let him get away

00:34:01.130 --> 00:34:08.250
with so much? And I said, well, you know, if

00:34:08.250 --> 00:34:12.030
I were after him every single time he does something

00:34:12.030 --> 00:34:14.889
wrong, that's all I would be doing is correcting

00:34:14.889 --> 00:34:18.510
him. So I have to choose the important things

00:34:18.510 --> 00:34:22.070
to focus on and let some others slide. And I

00:34:22.070 --> 00:34:24.449
choose the things I think will save his life.

00:34:24.989 --> 00:34:30.199
And she went, oh. So anyway, she had her own

00:34:30.199 --> 00:34:33.519
issues, too. But in fact, my son always liked

00:34:33.519 --> 00:34:38.340
to say, well, you know that Debbie's not as good

00:34:38.340 --> 00:34:41.539
as you think she is. And I said, I probably know

00:34:41.539 --> 00:34:45.280
that. And then he says, but you think Michelle's

00:34:45.280 --> 00:34:48.059
perfect and she's not perfect. And I said, yeah,

00:34:48.239 --> 00:34:51.280
I know that. But this isn't about comparison.

00:34:51.280 --> 00:34:55.059
We love each of you. And we're concerned about

00:34:55.059 --> 00:34:57.860
different things for each of you. But we want

00:34:57.860 --> 00:35:01.559
you to be able to know you're loved and cared

00:35:01.559 --> 00:35:05.000
for and desired as part of our family. But we

00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:07.619
want you to also learn how you're going to move

00:35:07.619 --> 00:35:11.820
forward into a life. And one way is that we're

00:35:11.820 --> 00:35:14.360
going to respect each other and show love to

00:35:14.360 --> 00:35:17.110
each other. I don't know if I said all of that

00:35:17.110 --> 00:35:20.329
then, but I would now. There's a lot more we

00:35:20.329 --> 00:35:24.550
would say now. We know more. So, well, what other

00:35:24.550 --> 00:35:29.369
thoughts or wisdom do you want to share with

00:35:29.369 --> 00:35:33.230
our listeners? Well, for us parents, I think

00:35:33.230 --> 00:35:35.489
a big thing is to remember that we're not perfect

00:35:35.489 --> 00:35:40.489
either. You know, we did our best, and we looked

00:35:40.489 --> 00:35:43.469
to God for wisdom and guidance, but we made mistakes.

00:35:45.769 --> 00:35:47.690
You know, when we were struggling with guilt

00:35:47.690 --> 00:35:53.090
earlier on in our journey, God pointed out to

00:35:53.090 --> 00:35:58.750
my husband that we need to keep perspective and

00:35:58.750 --> 00:36:02.809
that God was the only perfect parent. And look

00:36:02.809 --> 00:36:05.230
what happened to his first two children, Adam

00:36:05.230 --> 00:36:07.969
and Eve. They had a perfect environment. There

00:36:07.969 --> 00:36:10.510
was no peer pressure. They hadn't even sinned

00:36:10.510 --> 00:36:15.820
yet. But yet they couldn't even live up to. God's

00:36:15.820 --> 00:36:18.579
expectations. But did God do anything wrong?

00:36:18.980 --> 00:36:23.360
No. Did he make any mistakes? No. So why do we

00:36:23.360 --> 00:36:28.260
think we deserve any better? Wow. That put it

00:36:28.260 --> 00:36:32.579
in perspective for me. That's a big thing. So

00:36:32.579 --> 00:36:36.639
to just remember that God's not shaking his finger

00:36:36.639 --> 00:36:42.849
at us and he wasn't perfect. He'll fix it. He

00:36:42.849 --> 00:36:45.510
goes through and cuts out the stuff. I'm so glad.

00:36:47.130 --> 00:36:53.869
Another thing is to hold on to hope. I've heard

00:36:53.869 --> 00:36:57.730
you say that before. But not the kind of hope

00:36:57.730 --> 00:37:02.510
that is more like wishful thinking where we're

00:37:02.510 --> 00:37:04.969
confident that everything we want is going to

00:37:04.969 --> 00:37:07.130
work out the way we want. All of our prayers

00:37:07.130 --> 00:37:12.550
are going to be answered just like we are. asking.

00:37:12.550 --> 00:37:15.190
It's a hope that is based on the promises of

00:37:15.190 --> 00:37:19.050
God, the things that are sure that he's with

00:37:19.050 --> 00:37:21.949
us. We're not alone. He loves us. He loves our

00:37:21.949 --> 00:37:24.250
children even more than we do, and he'll never

00:37:24.250 --> 00:37:28.710
stop seeking them. He has a purpose for all of

00:37:28.710 --> 00:37:31.670
our pain. There are so many promises for us to

00:37:31.670 --> 00:37:36.760
hold on to that are sure and true. and that are

00:37:36.760 --> 00:37:40.019
this firm kind of hope I'm talking about. There

00:37:40.019 --> 00:37:42.059
are so many of them that we publish them in the

00:37:42.059 --> 00:37:44.659
back of our parent notebook that goes with our

00:37:44.659 --> 00:37:47.360
support group materials. There's 33 of them,

00:37:47.420 --> 00:37:49.980
and they are the things that we can know for

00:37:49.980 --> 00:37:52.599
certain. Why don't you share a few of them? Well,

00:37:52.699 --> 00:37:57.139
a few of them are that I have all the help I

00:37:57.139 --> 00:38:00.519
need from the Holy Spirit. He's our helper, advocate.

00:38:01.119 --> 00:38:03.960
Counselor, Comforter. Jesus talked about this

00:38:03.960 --> 00:38:07.559
in John 14, 16. He said, and I will ask the Father

00:38:07.559 --> 00:38:09.980
and he will give you another counselor to be

00:38:09.980 --> 00:38:14.159
with you forever. Another one is that Jesus prays

00:38:14.159 --> 00:38:18.539
for me all the time. Therefore, he is able to

00:38:18.539 --> 00:38:20.920
save completely those who come to God through

00:38:20.920 --> 00:38:23.840
him because he always lives to intercede for

00:38:23.840 --> 00:38:28.719
them. That's Hebrews 7, 25. And he wants to help

00:38:28.719 --> 00:38:32.719
my child. He'll never stop seeking them. He doesn't

00:38:32.719 --> 00:38:35.760
want them to perish. And we read about that in

00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:39.780
2 Peter 3 .9. The Lord is not slow in keeping

00:38:39.780 --> 00:38:42.900
his promise. As some understand slowness, he

00:38:42.900 --> 00:38:45.900
is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish,

00:38:46.099 --> 00:38:49.960
but everyone to come to repentance. I think another

00:38:49.960 --> 00:38:53.619
one I really like is that this pain won't last

00:38:53.619 --> 00:38:57.960
forever. It feels like it will. but it will eventually

00:38:57.960 --> 00:39:01.519
come to an end. Romans 8, 18 says, For I consider

00:39:01.519 --> 00:39:04.159
that the sufferings of this present time are

00:39:04.159 --> 00:39:07.039
not worthy to be compared with the glory that

00:39:07.039 --> 00:39:10.500
is to be revealed to us. It might not be in our

00:39:10.500 --> 00:39:15.199
lifetime, but it will in God's timing. And there

00:39:15.199 --> 00:39:20.000
are so many more about joy and his guidance and

00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:25.199
wisdom and his comfort that he's close to the

00:39:25.199 --> 00:39:28.610
brokenhearted. So many, and they are each so

00:39:28.610 --> 00:39:31.750
precious. And I wrote them all down because I

00:39:31.750 --> 00:39:34.510
needed them. And I carried them with me everywhere

00:39:34.510 --> 00:39:37.929
on index cards and put them up on bathroom mirror

00:39:37.929 --> 00:39:41.110
and kept them at the kitchen sink. And so this

00:39:41.110 --> 00:39:43.050
is another thing I would encourage people to

00:39:43.050 --> 00:39:46.630
do. Focus on what's true, what you know you can

00:39:46.630 --> 00:39:49.210
count on. And that's where your hope comes from.

00:39:49.230 --> 00:39:53.090
It's in God and in him alone. And he will carry

00:39:53.090 --> 00:39:57.030
you through all of the storms. But make a list.

00:39:57.369 --> 00:40:01.449
And keep looking at it because we need him so

00:40:01.449 --> 00:40:04.869
much. And we can't remember. We forget when the

00:40:04.869 --> 00:40:09.789
battle is raging. We forget what is truth if

00:40:09.789 --> 00:40:11.670
we don't keep it right in front of our face.

00:40:12.030 --> 00:40:14.829
And we do have an enemy. Oh, yes. And that's

00:40:14.829 --> 00:40:18.019
another thing. Go ahead. Oh, just that we're

00:40:18.019 --> 00:40:21.039
in a battle. We are. It's not just my difficult

00:40:21.039 --> 00:40:25.019
child. Oh, poor me. It's a spiritual battle in

00:40:25.019 --> 00:40:27.579
the heavenly realms for their soul, because we

00:40:27.579 --> 00:40:31.019
know he's out to steal, kill and destroy, especially

00:40:31.019 --> 00:40:35.719
to attack Christian homes and families. Our children

00:40:35.719 --> 00:40:38.119
who may have known him and received him when

00:40:38.119 --> 00:40:39.940
they were younger and then have drifted away.

00:40:40.079 --> 00:40:43.139
God has a plan and a purpose for them. And as

00:40:43.139 --> 00:40:45.219
I said, he will never stop seeking to fulfill

00:40:45.219 --> 00:40:50.170
those plans. Always after them, the end of Psalm

00:40:50.170 --> 00:40:54.130
23, that surely goodness and mercy will follow

00:40:54.130 --> 00:40:58.309
us. They'll dog after them, constantly nipping

00:40:58.309 --> 00:41:01.250
at their heels, reminding them of truth. And

00:41:01.250 --> 00:41:05.989
I love this, Judy. When Renee was out there and

00:41:05.989 --> 00:41:10.949
in her worst times, and we were so afraid that

00:41:10.949 --> 00:41:13.969
we would lose her. We would pray that God would

00:41:13.969 --> 00:41:17.190
bring to her mind the truth that was planted

00:41:17.190 --> 00:41:20.230
in her heart when she was little, that he wouldn't

00:41:20.230 --> 00:41:23.829
let her get away from it. And it was so rewarding

00:41:23.829 --> 00:41:27.550
to find out later when she had come back and

00:41:27.550 --> 00:41:31.369
was restored to us, she would say, ah, at the

00:41:31.369 --> 00:41:35.409
worst times when we're just about to do all this

00:41:35.409 --> 00:41:38.429
partying, I would remember a praise and worship

00:41:38.429 --> 00:41:41.800
song. Or a scripture verse would come to my mind

00:41:41.800 --> 00:41:43.860
and it was like, no, I don't want to think about

00:41:43.860 --> 00:41:48.940
that. No. So, yes, mom, dad, those of you who

00:41:48.940 --> 00:41:51.300
have sown those seeds in them know that God is

00:41:51.300 --> 00:41:54.280
watering them and he will bring them to mine

00:41:54.280 --> 00:41:57.800
at the perfect time and keep seeking to pull

00:41:57.800 --> 00:42:01.960
them back into his arms. Oh, that is so true.

00:42:02.380 --> 00:42:06.750
And that. Enemy is also after us, those who love

00:42:06.750 --> 00:42:11.289
a prodigal. He's looking for any way he can cause

00:42:11.289 --> 00:42:19.849
to hurt, destroy us, or just make us unable to

00:42:19.849 --> 00:42:26.849
walk through this well. One of the things that's

00:42:26.849 --> 00:42:29.170
been most important for me in our prodigal journey

00:42:29.170 --> 00:42:33.469
is to understand that God is equally working

00:42:33.469 --> 00:42:37.789
on me, even as he's working on my prodigal. And

00:42:37.789 --> 00:42:41.530
so that's why I learned to give thanks, because

00:42:41.530 --> 00:42:44.369
that helped me get through that. And it was a

00:42:44.369 --> 00:42:48.030
huge part of it. But it also was other things

00:42:48.030 --> 00:42:53.690
that I learned about unconditional love. God

00:42:53.690 --> 00:42:58.760
told me, You know, this boy came into our home

00:42:58.760 --> 00:43:03.300
and it took a while to really love him. In fact,

00:43:03.360 --> 00:43:06.219
God, one night he he opened me up and he poured

00:43:06.219 --> 00:43:09.300
a big vat of something in me. And I said, what

00:43:09.300 --> 00:43:11.940
is that? He says, oh, that's my love for Josh.

00:43:12.219 --> 00:43:17.099
You're going to need it. Oh, good. Oh, boy. But

00:43:17.099 --> 00:43:19.880
what it cost was all of a sudden I'm crazy in

00:43:19.880 --> 00:43:25.349
love with this kid. And and. I just needed God

00:43:25.349 --> 00:43:28.710
to help me understand that whatever I needed

00:43:28.710 --> 00:43:32.369
on this journey, he would give me. And Satan

00:43:32.369 --> 00:43:35.469
would try to prevent that. But God's going to

00:43:35.469 --> 00:43:38.489
give me everything that I need to be able to

00:43:38.489 --> 00:43:43.030
walk this myself as well as learn how to keep

00:43:43.030 --> 00:43:48.329
loving even when. That gets rejected or the decisions.

00:43:48.550 --> 00:43:50.969
We have to take care of ourselves because we've

00:43:50.969 --> 00:43:54.309
seen a lot of parents walk away from their faith

00:43:54.309 --> 00:43:57.590
or just get so mad at God because he's not answering

00:43:57.590 --> 00:44:04.090
their prayers that they need space. And they

00:44:04.090 --> 00:44:11.550
doubt his goodness. And that's easy. Yes. In

00:44:11.550 --> 00:44:14.539
the midst of. really hard things to doubt his

00:44:14.539 --> 00:44:18.199
goodness. And yet he is good. I was just because

00:44:18.199 --> 00:44:21.219
I was working on another episode talking about

00:44:21.219 --> 00:44:27.320
how good he is. And he never quits looking for

00:44:27.320 --> 00:44:31.920
ways to do good to us and to our prodigals. In

00:44:31.920 --> 00:44:35.780
coping with our fears, we tell parents, even

00:44:35.780 --> 00:44:40.340
if your what ifs happen. We can still be confident

00:44:40.340 --> 00:44:45.079
that God is good and he loves us. Yes. Because

00:44:45.079 --> 00:44:48.219
this also affects our health, our physical health,

00:44:48.340 --> 00:44:51.039
our mental health. We can become very depressed.

00:44:51.139 --> 00:44:53.079
We have no parents who ended up in the hospital

00:44:53.079 --> 00:44:55.920
so sick because of all the stress and strain

00:44:55.920 --> 00:44:58.880
because they were trying to cope with all of

00:44:58.880 --> 00:45:02.579
this on their own instead of letting God be their

00:45:02.579 --> 00:45:07.179
strength. Any other things you'd like to pass

00:45:07.179 --> 00:45:12.820
on to our listeners? I think my last one would

00:45:12.820 --> 00:45:15.280
be to just remember when you feel like you can't

00:45:15.280 --> 00:45:19.579
do this, when it feels way too hard, remember

00:45:19.579 --> 00:45:23.460
that your help is in the name of the Lord, the

00:45:23.460 --> 00:45:27.099
maker of heaven and earth. And with him, you

00:45:27.099 --> 00:45:33.210
can do the impossible. That's great. So listeners,

00:45:33.369 --> 00:45:37.849
I hope that you've understood or heard or figured

00:45:37.849 --> 00:45:41.469
out how you really can love a holiday even when

00:45:41.469 --> 00:45:44.389
you love a prodigal because God is going to be

00:45:44.389 --> 00:45:49.250
there with you. And Dina has shared some scriptures

00:45:49.250 --> 00:45:52.309
that are helpful. She's shared perspectives.

00:45:52.769 --> 00:45:57.050
She's given you five steps to do. You want to

00:45:57.050 --> 00:46:01.559
repeat them? Lower expectations. Number two,

00:46:01.780 --> 00:46:05.699
consider doing things differently. Three, avoid

00:46:05.699 --> 00:46:09.539
social media. Four, focus on others. And five,

00:46:09.940 --> 00:46:15.429
be grateful. OK, well, thank you, Dina. So rich

00:46:15.429 --> 00:46:18.489
and I hope so helpful to people. It's been helpful

00:46:18.489 --> 00:46:24.329
to me already. And so you can find links to Dina's

00:46:24.329 --> 00:46:27.630
ministry, Hope for Hurting Parents, in the show

00:46:27.630 --> 00:46:32.090
notes of the podcast. And you can also find the

00:46:32.090 --> 00:46:36.170
names of their books and a link for her book.

00:46:36.309 --> 00:46:39.719
Tom's isn't out yet. And we really would like

00:46:39.719 --> 00:46:42.039
some feedback because we're always looking for

00:46:42.039 --> 00:46:44.760
things that are helpful to people and ways that

00:46:44.760 --> 00:46:50.010
we can give guidance. There's a place in my show

00:46:50.010 --> 00:46:53.010
notes that says write to Judy and you can write.

00:46:53.130 --> 00:46:55.869
And I would love to hear your ideas. I will share

00:46:55.869 --> 00:46:59.449
them with Dina. And we will also have books for

00:46:59.449 --> 00:47:03.030
the third person and the ninth person who respond.

00:47:03.429 --> 00:47:07.050
And I am so excited that you could be with us

00:47:07.050 --> 00:47:11.510
today. And I pray that God gives you in these

00:47:11.510 --> 00:47:15.340
holidays coming up, especially. a really sweet

00:47:15.340 --> 00:47:18.039
time with those prodigals in your life, that

00:47:18.039 --> 00:47:22.900
he overcomes the potential for tension and even

00:47:22.900 --> 00:47:28.480
conflict and anger on either side that can erupt.

00:47:28.579 --> 00:47:31.900
And I pray that instead you would have a chance

00:47:31.900 --> 00:47:35.880
to show love, maintain relationship, enjoy each

00:47:35.880 --> 00:47:39.039
other, and have your family come closer together.

00:47:39.480 --> 00:47:43.019
It may be brief while you're still on the journey,

00:47:43.119 --> 00:47:46.929
but can look at that as a time of, oh yeah, we

00:47:46.929 --> 00:47:51.150
were able to be together. And thank you, Lord,

00:47:51.230 --> 00:47:53.769
that you're going to help each of us to do that

00:47:53.769 --> 00:47:55.510
well. God bless you.