God's Goodness for the Chosen -Amanda Jenkins

0:00 Hello everyone, I'm Stephen Strang and welcome to the Strang Report. You know, I get to interview a lot of interesting people and today I have as my guest Amanda Jenkins and we're going to talk about the chosen. Everybody knows about the chosen. It is, you know, it kind of came out of nowhere a few years ago and now it's one of the most watched TV shows ever and they have a lot of materials that go with the chosen and there's a new interactive Bible study. I'm going through this myself and I get to talk to the author, Amanda Jenkins, who does all of the resource materials for the chosen and I'm so happy to meet you and to interview you and I want you to tell your father-in-law, Jerry Jenkins, who I've known in the publishing industry for like forever.

0:57 Tell him I said hello. And so let me start by just asking you why did you write this? Well, we do Bible studies with every season. We do a devotional and we do a Bible study with every season. This one in particular we did because we were struggling, my co-writer and I, we were struggling separately, but with the same really this concept of suffering was on our hearts. And so we really, the operating title for this Bible study, the whole time we were writing it was really more the suffering for the chosen, which is not the best selling title.

1:40 I don't know a lot of people who can't wait to like get into suffering. And so the title became God's goodness for the chosen, not just because suffering is not a great title, but also because what God was showing us in our own suffering was that when he's in suffering with us, his goodness and the things of God really begin to eclipse that suffering, not remove it per se, but to eclipse it. And so that's how this one emerged. And it really falls right in line with the themes of season four of the show. Well, I want you to do a little more of a deep dive and why did you call it God's goodness for the chosen when it's on suffering?

2:26 Because until someone gets into the manuscript, they're not going to really understand the connection. Yeah, well, we looked at the passage of 1 Peter that we were so intrigued by Peter himself and how the disciples, the early Christians, they suffered more than really most of us ever will. It didn't end well for most of them. Most of them, 10 out of 12, I think, were murdered. And so we became really intrigued with this idea how they, and specifically Peter, went from being fearful and confused and scattering at Jesus's crucifixion to becoming kind of these bedrock preachers of the early church.

3:15 And so we took that passage of 1 Peter and we just studied it verse by verse. And what we found is that the good things of God that are born out of our suffering really do end up outweighing our suffering. And again, like I said, that's where we were. We were struggling. And so it's hard to write about other things when you're so fixated and you kind of can't see through your suffering. And that's where we were. So that's where God met us. We know nowadays it seems like things in the culture and in the world are so bad. There's a lot of persecution of Christians and those of us who grew up in America where we have religious freedom kind of grew up in a bubble.

4:00 You know, and now we're seeing some of our religious freedoms taken away and thankfully it doesn't affect all of us, but it's much more difficult than it was. And so this, and what made me think of that, Amanda, is that the Roman Empire was, had to be 100 times worse than whatever we're facing now. I mean, they fed Christians to lions. They killed Christians and dipped their bodies in wax and lit them to be candles. And you know, one of the things, I'm reading it now, and one of the things that helped me understand was like even when Jesus was at Cessria, Philippi, to realize that that was a center of paganism.

4:43 It's where the Jordan River starts in a mountain. It's where there's a cave that they call the gates of hell. Well suddenly that scripture about the gates of hell, not prevailing, starts to make sense. And to realize that Jesus and his disciples were right there by the temple for Pan and some of the other pagan gods in a way that the, the scripture doesn't seem to play that up as much. I mean, we know that Jesus was going through Cessria, Philippi, when he asked his disciples, who do you say that I am? Right in the middle of where you are, right?

5:23 Right in the middle of the mass where you are. And I wonder if it was because the principles weren't so specific to that time. I think sometimes we think the time we're living in is the worst time. And then we do a little history and we realize probably not, but also even the worst things of our time are under the sovereignty of, of the Lord and the things that he said then are the same things that are true for us now. So some of that out of space, out of time is very helpful as we're now in the 21st century dealing with really strange new things and suffering in ways I would say even our kids are suffering in new ways. I think Satan is very inventive and yet there's nothing new under the sun in the sense that Jesus's words are as applicable to us today.

6:12 You're absolutely right. In fact, when I have an interview, I always look through the book. I look to see what stands out to me. I was so intrigued with this, I actually started reading it. And this morning I actually underlined the sentence. I didn't really intend to mention it, but I mean, I just want to prove to my viewers that I read it. It says, because endurance produces character and character produces hope. And then there's these, it's so well done. There's these little call outs on the side. It is just so creative with the circle.

6:53 Look at this, a whole quote on a page. It's what in our business we call the skip and jump reader. You can just, you know, even if you don't read the manuscript, if you know you read a normal manuscript, there's page after page after page of type. This you go through and it's whatever jumps out at you and you read it. Now, what does that mean? How does it fit in? And you went to stop and read the manuscript. So my tip of my hat to you and your publisher, David C. Cook, who's an excellent publisher, I've known them of course for years because I've been in the business for years. But did you come up with all this creativity or did the design department, how, how, how far were you trying to do when you laid it out in such a creative way?

7:39 Well, we really worked together. David C. Cook is such a good partner for us. And then we've got design guys on their side and on our side. But the content really kind of spoke for itself in the sense of we're literally talking about how God's goodness is able to come into line with our suffering in such a way that it becomes bigger than. So we really just wanted to throughout the book, every new verse, you see that eclipse coming farther and farther, you know, across that sun shape. And so it really just lent itself to almost a very literal translation of what we were talking about.

8:20 And I noticed you also had dialogue. It looks like it's from the movie. Like for example, you had dialogue with Mary Magdalene at the perfumer buying the expensive perfume. And while that story is not literally in the Bible, you know, it's it kind of refers to it was is that dialogue in season four, which I have not seen yet. Yeah. So every one of our Bible studies, we we talk one of our guiding principles with our studies is we say our studies are not a supplement to the show. The show is a supplement to the study because we're actually studying the Bible. We're not studying the show.

9:01 The show is great. We love the show, but the show isn't the Bible. And so we're studying the Bible, but we use script script excerpts in all of our Bible studies. And so as we're talking about whatever we're talking about in lesson one, two, three, we include we enter into the lesson with some script excerpts and we leave it with some script excerpts. So we do get a little flavor of the show in the study. Well, and they do go together. And of course, as people have discovered the chosen, what at least my experience, both at my home and people I've known, they almost binge watch it. Is that the right term? We watch one Jesus.

9:43 We we we DVR a couple of episodes and watch them right in a row. I know we usually do that around Easter. I know that this one is not available on your app yet before the podcast is over. I want people to I want you to tell people how to connect with you and connect with the book and also what's happening with the chosen. But I have several questions I want to ask you. How does this study encourage people to see beyond their immediate struggles to the goodness that awaits to them on the other side? Yeah, we don't shy away from the hard things. I think I think a real common theme of the script writers and my husband as the creator of the show.

10:27 And then also as we're writing, we we don't shy away from the hard questions of life. Why we're not being healed when we're asking for it. Why we're not getting financial release relief when God is promised to provide. Why why do why do we have to wait to see even hear God's voice or experiencing him. Those things we're really trying to deal with very honestly. And so the best thing I knew to do we're actually coming through a season of real suffering because of my daughter's health, a chronic illness that we can't we just can't get our arms around. And so I was dealing with this kid who whose faith I was concerned with because what she was dealing with was so enormous.

11:17 And shaking my own fist at the heavens as I wasn't seeing him engage in our suffering in the way I wanted him to. And so because I had this kid I was still having to disciple her because of course I believe this stuff is actually true. I just wasn't feeling it the way I wanted to feel it. I was discipling her which made me go back into scripture and back into scripture and back into scripture and and when you do that. God doesn't necessarily emerge the way you envision that you want him to. But with every verse of this passage of 1 Peter we really were seeing the promises of God and the character of God.

12:03 And it just was so preaching to our hearts it's now and our chapters are interesting they're not cause and effect in the way that we normally think so. So one of the chapters is called our questions are met with resolve as you're actually questioning God and you're not getting the answers that you want. He gives you actually something different he gives you himself and his promises and his character and those qualities that end up this planting these deep seeds of faith in your heart that allow you the resolve to wait on answers. And so we really we really dove into that piece of scripture and asked the hard questions of God that we were asking behind closed doors. Well that's such a touching story and it's so authentic that you would share that.

12:48 Why is the author of this and actually you're a co-author because you have a theologian who worked with you. And I guess I can kind of assume you wanted him to verify that everything or how did he fit into all this before I asked the next question. He fits it in such a fun way. Doug Huffman is not only one of the most brilliant Bible scholars I've I've ever known. He was also my Bible professor in college. Dallas and I went to a Bible college and this was our professor and we became friends with him and his wife. And so when we went on this journey with the show we asked Doug to come on board and check every script because the show is steeped in scripture and it's biblically based.

13:31 But you know unless a lot of entertainment up until this point has just taken verse by verse and so you you lift right off of the Bible page and then they went to Philippi and they did this and God said this. It doesn't make for great TV. So this was steeped in those biblical stories but then there is this historical narrative that the guys wrote. And so it was really important for us to make sure while we weren't lifting everything from scripture that what we were putting in the show was biblically plausible. And for that you've got to have the scholars say yeah they could have said this.

14:13 This is reasonable to think that this conversation filled in the blank between this miracle and this miracle. And so having him on board was really important and we have a whole panel of scholars. But then we needed to we wanted to continue pointing people to scripture in between the seasons. And so I was already writing and teaching Bible studies and so it made a lot of sense for me to take over this extra content aspect of our company. But I didn't want to do it without Doug because I really didn't want anything that we did to be wrong. And so Doug is my partner. He's brilliant. He's my long time friend. I love him and his wife and so we have a really unique special bond.

14:57 You know having him is very important because you're trying to appeal to people who maybe don't know the Bible don't go to church just want to be entertained maybe think about those times in a different way. But you introduce things that aren't in the scripture. One of them that sticks out of my mind is the scene. It was like almost a whole episode about Jesus and the children. Of course the scripture talks about Jesus bidding the little children to come unto him. But this had him interacting with them in just a very special way. Where you say oh it could have been like that. I think I understand Jesus character better.

15:39 Well on the other side from the unbelievers you got the legalist in the church. The boy if you if you what's the expression slice a hair too thin or something or if you get it wrong at all they're just going to be all over your case. Yes right. Yeah. And so I just admire so much what you've done. Oh thank you. They're on our case whether we get it wrong or not. Some people someone's always on our case which is really it's really fine and I actually welcome it because I think it keeps us really honest you know and just doing our part in our due diligence on the creative end of things.

16:21 But yeah that episode that you're talking about has been one of the most well received by Christians and non-Christians alike by all age groups by children up to people you know elderly people on their deathbed this to special needs people. I mean that episode we didn't know it was going to kind of take on a life of its own and I think the reason is because that verse that Jesus welcomed children is important and special. But like what would that look like you know we didn't get every word recorded in scripture but he was welcoming them and Jesus was the guy invited to parties and Jesus was friends with people and hung out with people and leaned back and reclined at the table and spent time and so when creative folks start imagining what welcoming the little children actually looked like it does change the way you read scripture it brings kind of the black and white the black and white of the page into color you're kind of able to go oh my gosh yes of course this is how he would have looked at them or this is how he would have said that or this is how he would have smiled or the silly noise he would have made.

17:30 It's been a really it's been a faith booster for us too just to get to imagine and go deeper as we meditate on the actual scripture and most people say it pushed them back to scripture they opened up their Bible for the first time or in a long time and that's really the heart behind that. You know in your book you talk about hope and promise and you remind the reader that the earth is not our home for believers how should the hope of heaven impact the way that we feel about our circumstances especially suffering. Well I think for me you are what your gaze is fixed on I mean you you really do become caught up in what your focus is on and so the more I was forced to do this study and I did do this study as we were writing it I was studying this this is not stuff I knew before I think God keeps us from preaching from my place to be honest so we're going through it and I'm meeting to see God in my suffering and I'm asking the hard questions that I'm sitting down at the computer and I'm like okay I don't know what to write you're going to have to show me from your word what we're writing about now.

18:47 When you do that and it it it comes to life alongside the show it truly changes the way that you experience the actual circumstances because now my eyes are on this more eternal thing now my eyes are actually lifted a little bit over the mire and it's so much more tolerable when you know that whether here or in heaven this is truly temporary but that only happens if you're really focusing on that for long enough to have an impact your heart and your mind right that's the kind of the key of focusing on on eternal things. So as we wrap up this short podcast you've already shared with us some an example very touching example about your daughter and her illness but what ways has God shown you his goodness through all this and maybe some other examples.

19:48 I would say I'm I've learned that he's he grieves with grievers his presence ultimately when we did begin to see it it changes everything and he he grieves with those who grieve and so I think it's changed the way that I respond to people in grief but I think too it introduced me to the man of sorrows in a way that I just had not known him before Jesus is called the man of sorrows and and until you are really sorrowful that isn't as meaningful but to know that there's nothing we go through that he doesn't understand from a visceral place of an experience whether it's betrayal or fear or physical pain whatever that suffering is he's actually been there in it in a voluntary capacity like he did it for our sake and so it just changed the way that I see him almost in a way that I the compassion he has for us the empathy he has for us I actually started to have for him it's a new level of intimacy that you have with the Lord when you when you understand him better when you get to know him better and what he's been through so those two primary things I think are my biggest takeaways.

21:09 Well I know a lot of people are going to want to read this book so talk to me other than the obvious how can people get it I know it's available online and also just tell me what's coming up with the chosen. Yeah you can get any of our stuff on the chosengifts.com that's our website Dallas always seems it I refuse he's got a little jingle I'm not doing it for you but it's www.thechosengifts.com for Amazon it's really easy to get and for the show we are a lot of people who follow the show know that we're in the kind of this limbo stage of releasing season four where it was in theaters for quite a while it's been in churches and in prisons which is where we feel really good about it has yet to release on the app although we're about four to seven weeks away just as we deal with some legal issues so you can pray for us in that regard this would be incredibly coveted I would say but yeah we we we are plowing ahead as Dallas has gone right now in Utah filming season five so our goal is to get through seven seasons to tell this story and and after that we're going to take a nap.

22:28 That's funny as we wrap up the podcast I'd like for you to pray for the people who are watching and listening we have no way of knowing what people are going through but every life involves some suffering even if it's just a loss of a loved one or just different difficulties why don't you pray for them pray that the Holy Spirit lead them and guide them and also to use your book in a exceeding abundantly more than we could ask or think so would you lead us in prayer and then we'll close the podcast that way happy to Lord you you really are good and sometimes it's it's hard to see it and so I pray for the people listening as I have prayed for myself and my kid so many times would you just enable people to see you as they're seeking you would you be found by them as your word promises thank you for the suffering that you endured thank you that you understand thank you for your compassion and for your faithfulness to us and for your constant presence and for your and for your kindness toward us when we accuse you of not being present word would you just remain and would you make yourself known and would you comfort hearts and for whatever

23:59 this book can help Lord we pray that it would it's all we got we have our testimonies of who you are Lord you do the work so thank you that you include us in any small way we pray these things in Jesus name amen amen and thank you Amanda for fitting this into your busy schedule be sure to tell your father a Jerry that I said hello thank you to my viewers and listeners for tuning into the Strang report today be sure to get this book be sure to follow what's happening with the chosen and if you haven't subscribed to my channel yet I ask I invite you to do so and hit the little bell so you know when we're live every Tuesday and Thursday at 4 p.m. Eastern time thank you for watching until next time