Finding Joy on Your Prodigal Journey with Jill Baughan (episode 167)

0:00 Welcome to the When You Love a Prodigal podcast. If you love a prodigal, you can discover help and hope for your wilderness journey right here at the When You Love a Prodigal podcast, and also help and hope for your own life journey. One thing I am sure of, if you love a prodigal, one thing that seems to be in short supply in your life, in your home, is probably joy. And today I have a special guest who specializes in joy. Don't forget, write down anything you want to apply or try or think about or you'll forget. I first met Jill Bond online. I observed her sharing joy with many. She interviewed me about finding joy with a prodigal. And that really helped me to think about it. and to hear what she has to say. So today, I have invited her to spread some joy with you. So Jill, welcome, welcome. So good to be here, Judy. Thank you.

1:11 You are, oh, my treat and our very great gratitude. So tell us just a little about yourself and how joy invaded your life. I grew up in the Midwest. And one of the first lessons I learned about joy was when I was a kid. I learned it on the tilt -a -whirl while I was writing. And that's the first place I realized that it was entirely possible for a human being to laugh and throw up at the same time. This has something here. Well, later in life, that lesson came back to me as a realization that you really can. experience joy and sorrow and tough times in the same life on the road, side by side. We just have to be very, very intentional about drawing from the joy. So how do you define joy? A lot of laughing?

2:11 Not necessarily. Most people have probably heard of joy and happiness are not the same thing, but I define joy as deep delight. that feeds your soul. And that definition to me helps me to hold, to be able to hold joy and sorrow at the same time that you're going through terrible times, but there is something there that will bring you deep delight, even if it's just a shot of it, even if it's just a little piece of the journey along the way. So I love that definition of delight that feeds your soul. I've used it a lot. Well, that's something we need because when you're going through the hard things, sometimes your soul starves a little. Oh, yes. And so I think that's a beautiful thought. And we need joy so much. So I'm going to jump in on a thought here that you can expound on if you wish. But for me, one of the most important things I found that helps me with joy is to give thanks in everything.

3:21 As things happen that are not easy or good or desirable or really bad things that happen, that I have found that God's instruction to give thanks in everything makes so much difference. And I know he didn't say, thank you, Lord. He didn't say, give thanks for everything. Because some things are really horrible, really bad that happen. And we're brokenhearted even. But in them, we can still thank God that he's in control. And that helps me to move toward joy anyway. Right, right. You know, I experienced that. In 2020, when COVID first invaded our lives, my father -in -law, Ben is my husband, his dad was at 91 years old, contracted COVID in April of that year. And we couldn't see him. He was taken to the hospital. My husband was very, very close to his dad. So like so many thousands of people, we weren't allowed to see him. And that was hard.

4:33 He was taken to the hospital. And, of course, we couldn't see him there either. And this was just the worst. And who could have, you know, how many times have we said, didn't see that coming, you know? Just the worst thing. And we were FaceTiming him in the hospital because of this absolute angel of a nurse. And he was in there maybe three days before. He said to us, he was having a struggle trying to breathe. And he said, I'm ready to go. And we weren't ready.

5:13 You weren't ready. No, to let him go. He's a wonderful, funny, beautiful man who ended every conversation with my husband with a reference to me saying, tell her she's beautiful. Every conversation, we just loved him. But as I'm saying, there was nothing in this situation that was joyful, nothing about what was happening. But there was this nurse, and she, her name was Karen, and she used her own phone to help us see him and communicate with him. She set up a computer in the room and put hymns on this computer. Not knowing that ever since his wife had died 12 years earlier, he listened to hymns every night for comfort on the radio. So she made this environment and she said, I will not leave him alone. I will not leave him. And as the time grew shorter and he said to us, I'm just ready to go. Tell him to just stop everything. She took her personal phone. And held it. I cannot tell you how long she held it. But we watched him as the time between breaths got longer and longer. And then it just failed to rise. And my husband said, I think he's gone. And she listened and she said, he is. And she cried with us. What a special thing.

6:49 She was the biggest gift. thought since then, what another example of joy and sorrow. I said, it was the most terrible, beautiful thing that we'd ever seen, being present with Him, sort of, in His last breath and ushering Him into the arms of God. And we could look at it as, oh, this is awful. FaceTime. FaceTime to watch your father die. Isn't it wonderful that in these circumstances, we had FaceTime to be with him? Absolutely. So I know exactly what you're talking about. And in that, I'm always saying, look for a tiny bit of joy or gratitude in that big bad story. Yeah. It gives us hope. It gives us something to really believe. Right. So let me ask you this.

7:53 It's hard to find joy when your tears are coming. When you just got one more piece of bad news about your child or your adult children have said, we don't want to have a relationship with you anymore. And that has happened more and more and more lately. What are the questions you can ask yourself in order to Change our mind, move our thinking from the horrible, the bad, the sad, to something that helps us to find joy. I started using the phrase, change the channel.

8:35 And I say it to myself all the time when I find myself spiraling. Okay, Jill, change the channel. Go focus over here. One question I love, as somebody asked me, And I've asked rooms full of people is what was the last thing you saw that brought you joy? And I give people about 15 seconds to think about that. And the whole room smiles in 15 seconds. You know, what was the last thing that brought you joy? It's just a way of changing that channel. And that focus that, and it's, you know, none of my suggestions and none of these, I've got some more questions, but none of them are an attempt to put a Band -Aid on a gaping wound and say, just put on a happy face and it'll be all right, because it won't. It won't. We all know that. However, I think the more we learn about shots of joy, that's what I call them, shots of joy. Shots of joy. Yeah, the dopamine and the hope and the gratitude.

9:43 invade your sorrowful spaces a second is it just exactly what you were talking about is what are you grateful for no matter what yeah so that's everything falls apart what are you the grateful for just one day um same same uh the question i love this one when do you feel most And you have to think about that sometimes. What are you doing when you feel most alive? Then start doing it more often. If music, I'm being personal here, music makes me feel so alive. Outdoors nature makes me feel so alive. And I think when we're in crisis, we forget to give ourselves those gifts of what we need. Also, I have found out my grandchildren live four and a half hours away from me, so I don't get to see them every day. When I go see them, I forget about everything else. My face has changed, so they make me feel alive. Everybody has something. The fourth one, I just have five. The fourth one, I love this one too. What do you do for fun? And I found this question so valuable when my mother was 99 years old. She was in an assisted living residence

11:16 and one of the ladies at the table who was fairly advanced in dementia. But my mom said, this is my daughter and this is how this lady got to know everybody. She said, this is my daughter, Jill. And the lady got up right up here and said, so what do you do for fun? And I thought... Brilliant. What if we all introduced ourselves, not by what our marital status, whether we have children, what we do for a living, anything else, but the first thing was, here's what I do for fun. Think about what is fun, because that too goes by the wayside, I think, when we're so consumed. Challenges.

12:00 So I was reading an article today, since it's the anniversary of COVID about what people felt they lost and what they gained and who handled it better and who didn't. And one of the things that was overwhelmingly evident was that people turned to outdoors. They turned to the fun things they could like to do. They made up games and things like that because they were not happy in the being locked down. And yet they turned to the things that gave them joy. And it brought them through it better than the ones who were angry. Right. Oh, heavens, yes. Oh, yeah. And the last question I have here is, I think when we're in a bad place, we just think nothing good around. The question is, what is possible? I can't change this. I can't change that. I can't change a bunch of things. But what is possible?

13:12 And it's a great question to sit with. What joy is possible? So those are some questions that are helpful, I guess. So I'm going to pause on this and tell my story of joy in very hard times, not with my prodigal, but with when my husband died. And it was fairly sudden and we weren't expecting it. And yet my kids were all with me and his brother was there. And the Lord said, he's coming to me. And so we just said, okay, he's yours, Lord. And he had a smile on his face.

14:00 And he just left. And the doctors came in and said, all right, we'll start undoing things. And it's like, no, he's already gone. And that was joy. That night I said to the Lord, so how am I supposed to live? And he said. well, I'll be with you. And I said, well, I know that, but really, how am I supposed to live? And the Lord said, every step of the way, Judy, I will be with you. And he has been. And the other thing I asked him, and he answered me beautifully, was, so why did he have to leave now? And it was not expected, you know. He had to leave because the treatment for some melanoma cancer that he had, which usually works but on occasions does not, actually is what took his life, was it attacked his muscles, all of his muscles. And so I said, why did he have to leave? And the Lord said, I wanted to be kind to him. And I'm like, I can't argue with that at all. And dad has, you know, it's been two and a half years almost now. And I miss him every day, you know. But it's like, but he's not suffering. He didn't have to go

15:32 through the long, hard stuff of having cancer. And he was, he's with Jesus. And how can I? not be joyful, not just accepting of it, but joyful in it. And that has been what's kept me going and still doing a podcast, you know, and a few other things. But God is able to give us joy, even in the very hard things. And these questions you've mentioned are really helpful. Maybe you have any other thoughts on when there's no joy in a situation. And I know people whose children have taken their lives. And you just go, how do you find joy in that? Do you have some thoughts for us? You know, when it comes to things like that, they're just... So there are no easy answers, obviously. I turn to concrete things because somehow that can help you get, you know, breathe and take a step if you can do something concrete.

16:53 One of the things that helps me is to concentrate on moments. And I call it embracing moments, seizing and celebrating moments. That's it. Seizing moments being determined in the day to change the channel. You know, God help me change the channel. And one way my husband and I did this was to start, we had a one line a day journal. Have you ever heard of those? I don't know that I have. You can get them anywhere online. It's a little tiny space for every day, just one line, one word, whatever. And you can use it any way you want, but it goes on for five years. So you have it across this way, and then you start over the next year, and it's right under the year you did before. And we started that journal January of 2020 of all the times. And we went on and did right before we would go to bed. We'd say, what's one good thing that happened today? No matter what, this is one, one good thing. It took, and people will tell me, oh, I can't keep a journal. I'm not a writer. No, this is just one word, if it has to be one word, 15 seconds or less. And I will tell you, we just finished up five years of it. Five years, wow. You know, one of those entries was the day his dad died

18:24 and a bunch of other things that were awful. But there are few things more comforting than a physical book to put by your bedside or anywhere else to be able to fill your mind in the evening before your head hits the pillow. Because we all know that nighttime is the worst. It's when your brain relaxes, but your heart is just prowling around, prowling around. The goodness of God, that's what you put in your mind last thing at night or any other time. And it was so wonderful. You talked about God being faithful to see five years, hundreds and hundreds of moments, but they were tiny. I got sick on a trip one time, and it was not life -threatening, but it was awful. It was a 15 -hour road trip, and I was sick. I'm so sorry. At the end of the day, I thought, no, I have to put something in this journal. All I could think of was, didn't die.

19:34 That was it. That was the best I could do. But that is one concrete thing that a person can do is to concentrate on those tiny moments. Also, there's another thing that I love to do, and that is encourage people. to keep a running list of things that bring you joy, what brings you deep delight. And you can't think of everything that brings you joy all at once in one sitting, but just you keep it where I have a little notebook right here. You keep a running list of it and just add to it when you think of it. And when you're going through a tough time, look at that list and pull something from that list and be sure, again, to give yourself. That whether it's time outdoors. Yeah. I read one lady whose best friend died. She was very much an outdoors person.

20:36 And she was grieving. And she said, I went into the woods because no other arms were big enough. I thought, what a wise. Sounds like a poet to me. It does. I know. I never forgot it. I can't even tell you who said it. But anything that you know that you can look at concrete and you can see, oh, yes, music brings me joy. Oh, being with this person brings me joy. Being by myself, you know, whatever your situation is, brings me joy. All you introverts out there, but all the introverts. We just don't pair the two things up. So those are a couple of concrete things that you can do. That's really a helpful thing.

21:27 And I think it's almost surprising when you're in the midst of pain and loss and fear that God can really come in and put joy in your heart, in your mind, even if there's no answer yet. There's no solution yet. He can give. Because it's one of the things that he gives is joy. We might think, well, yeah, he gives us faith. Well, yes, but that faith can help with joy, too. Right, right. It's a hard thing to sometimes grab hold of. But I really appreciate the things you said. And I like that idea of one thing every day. I tend to. get in my journal and write for two or three or four pages. But then that's effort to go back and read it. But to just skim over and just think someday when your kids find that and say, oh, yeah, she really was joyful, wasn't she? And I bet this is part of it. Right. So here's a question that you suggested. So why did you once rent a chimpanzee? To come and play at your house. Okay. I suggested this question because, number one, I love to tell the story.

22:55 But number two, it's about redeeming a lost opportunity for joy. And you can do that too. Sometimes people look back and say, well, I blew that one. You know, it's never going to be the same. I was at the state fair with my mom years ago, Virginia State Fair. And you could get your picture. We walked by this booth where you could get your picture taken with a chimpanzee for $5. A real one. Yeah. Oh, yes. Very much alive. She was two years old. Her name was Tootsie, I think. And I begged my mom, begged my mom, let's get our picture taken with the chimp. And keep in mind that I was a grown woman with a child at the time. I was not a child myself begging my mom. My mom was 70. I think I was 35. But she was a little more reserved than me. And she just kept refusing. And finally, I said, why not?

23:51 And she said, well, somebody might look at the picture 50 years from now and think it was a three -generation photo. And she was not joking. So we lost the opportunity. She wouldn't do it. She would not do it. And I was so bummed. Well, 20 years later. My family was coming from Indiana to Virginia for a family event. I knew this was the last time, most likely, that all of them would be in my space down here. I was lying in bed one night thinking, what am I going to do with these people for all these days? And then that day came back to my mind. I thought, I wonder if I could find a chimp, a photographable chimp.

24:35 So I went networking and actually found one. Oh, how awesome. I know. And so I called the guy and I said, here's what's going on. Please don't think I'm crazy. But he said, oh, no, no, that's fine. He said, but your mom, I told him the story about my mom. He said, but your mom is, you know, older and it was cold outside. He said, why don't I bring the chimp to your house? And you could not have made me any happier. So the day came and we set up a background and had one of the relatives, who's a photographer, set everything up. And, you know, under the guise of we're going to take some family photos, the chimp with the handler walks up the front. to the front door and I tell my mom, I said, put on some lipstick, mom, I got a surprise for you.

25:22 And they walked through the door and she knew immediately what was going on. We spent 90 of the most fun minutes of my life. We rolled over, you know, and she was jumping all over us. We took 300 pictures. But the greatest part of the day was when I sat down with my mom. And we had our picture, that redemptive picture taken with the chimpanzee. And I tell people, I keep that picture of us on my dresser as a reminder, not only of that joyful moment, which never fails to make me smile, but of the moments that are waiting in the day that I don't want to miss.

26:08 I don't want to miss them. I'm sorry, go ahead. No, you go ahead. There's a P .S. to this, too. When she was 99, my mom passed away. And we were working with the funeral director and the minister. And they said, you know, we have a little brochure that we put out and we need a picture. And my brother looked at me and he said, I have an idea, but it might be inappropriate. And I said, inappropriate is our middle name. I knew exactly what he wanted. So on my mom's. memorial brochure there's a picture of her with a chimpanzee and we told that story at her service and you talk about joy and sorrow in the same place in the same place and it was we were just intentional about it i mean there was there was nothing good there's nothing good about losing your mom you know but um oh the joy that was in that space well and just think of your whole family For all of them, you created a joyful memory that is going to be there. They might do it themselves later. I hope so. It's just so hopeful to me to know that you can be proactive about it, you know? Yeah, you can say, all right, if I find myself getting down or depressed, then I can. specifically say, all right, what is something joyful that I can do or think about

27:40 or call somebody who will make me laugh? But I can at least take action to bring a change. And I think that's a wonderful thing to do. So what do you write when you write a book about it? You know, I wrote this book, No Matter What. And it's 90 devotions for experiencing unexpected joy in tough times. I wrote the devotional that I always wanted to read. And that was because I have got to have humor in my life. It's such a great perspective giver. And I'm sure somewhere, somebody has written devotionals that have humor in them. I wanted to tell stories. I wanted people to feel like by the end of these 90 devotions that they had some encouragement from a friend.

28:40 Because, you know, people will know me by the time you get to the end. Because I tell a lot of my stories, but my stories are everybody's stories about imperfect lives. And I just, I love it when I feel like I kind of know the author. By the end of the book, and there's a sense of humor. I believe God has a sense of humor, and I believe that he wants us to see that also. Well, scripture tells us that God laughs. Exactly. So he does have a sense of humor. So here's an idea. So you have 90 devotionals in this book. Yes. So I have a book for people with prodigals that has 90 devotionals. So maybe people should have both books and either. read one each, read their one about their prodigal, and then read the one about joy. It sounds like a great idea.

29:35 It's a hard place to be. And some people, probably you're better and quicker to find the joy than a lot of people because you have it in your personality as well as you've learned to look for the joy. But I think if people could learn that they could capture some joy, if they would just stop and look for something that would give them joy, to look for the good, even in the loss of someone. But certainly when your kids are making some hurtful choices, it's going to be a story later that will help other people. And you can think there's good that can come even from this hard thing we're going through. It's a story I have.

30:27 Hopefully it's a story that your prodigal would have as well. To realize that even in the midst of this pain, I found some joy. And that gives others hope. I just, I love that. I have said that I hope while people read this book, I would love for them to experience joy while they're reading it, but also experience hope for joy after they put it down. That's good. Yeah, that's good. So any last thoughts you have or things you want to make sure that they remember or something we can pray for you? I just want people to remember that the change of the channel is so... important.

31:21 There's an author, Tommy Newberry, wrote about joy a lot. He's written a couple books about joy, and he talks about mental discipline, which sounds to me, I always call it like low -carb thinking. That was my reaction to it. That's no fun. But he described it as, he didn't use the words change the channel, but that's what it was. And he said, though God's grace does not require mental discipline. Living a life of joyful excellence must be preceded by it. But I would love to leave people with that. It's nice to know that if I'm stewing in my own juice, that God doesn't love me any less. But we do have the option of changing the channel and living with more joy. I like that. It reminds me of Ephesians 2 .10 when it says that, first it says in Psalm 139, He was there making each person just the way they were. And then it says that He looks at them when they're born. And most translations say handiwork, but the real meaning, of course, is work of art, masterpiece. And He's just... God the Father is filled with joy when he looks at each of us as he was making us. And

32:54 he sees, look, look, I've made another masterpiece. And it's great joy that he has. And if we can just even think about the fact that God has joy from us. And so it's not just our joy that's possible. That we make him joyful. I mean, I know he can be that way, but that we are the cause of joy for him. That is awesome. And I just, I love that. Well, dear friend, I'm looking forward to someday meeting you face to face. I would love that. This is nice, but it's not like the real thing, you know? No, it's not quite the same. There's no hugs, for example. That's right. That's right. So, well, let me pray for you. Father, thanks for Jill, and thanks for the help she's given to all of those who listened to this little short time together, that there's joy available, and that we can make a choice, and we can look for an opportunity. We can thank God and have Him fill us with His joy, and we can Step out of what our comfort zone or our discomfort zone is and look for what you're going to do and believe that you're still there, you're still active, you're still accomplishing good purposes in every single one of us. And that

34:28 we may have to not see all of the joy that's available, but you're there to give us some every day. And I pray that that would be true for Jill, but also for our listeners, Lord, that they would each day make the effort to look for the joy that you have for them. So thank you. Thank you in Jesus' name. And to my listeners, she talked about her book, No Matter What. And so we are going to offer three books. that we'll have a drawing for. So when you come to the show notes, which of course you will do, so you'll learn about resources and you can say, yes, I liked this podcast and you can even subscribe. But most of all, you can say, yes, I'd love to be in the drawing for those books and that you would really meet every person with some new joy today.

35:31 Blessings to you.