Hope for the Heart with June Hunt (episode 52)

0:00 Welcome to When You Love a Prodigal. If you love a prodigal, you can discover health and hope for your wilderness journey right here at the When You Love a Prodigal podcast. And also help and hope for your own life journey. So let me ask you a question. Do you need a counselor? Someone to listen to your fears and frustrations, who understands what it feels like to struggle when you don't know what to do, when you feel like a failure. Someone who can give wise and practical and workable input.

0:42 Someone who can give you hope. So I'm glad that you're here today. Today I'm talking with June Hunt, a native Texan from my hometown of Dallas. June is the founder of and CSO of, CSO is Chief Servant Officer of Hope for the Heart. After years of teaching and research, June has developed hundreds, well, more than a hundred, topical keys for living, providing subjects ranging from anger, do we ever deal with that? Abuse, addictions, yeah, we know those. To apologetics, to parenting, even to suicide.

1:26 And sadly, we know that as well. And many other topics. June is a top selling author with sales over two million books and is dedicated to presenting God's truth for today's problems. And here's what she says, I love this. Being confident that a changed mind produces a changed heart. I think it says something about that in Romans 12 too. And a changed heart produces a changed life. So as you listen to my conversation here with June, I want you to be thinking what's really something I need.

2:09 Take notes of what could help you in your relationship with your prodigal. Be sure you jot it down. You won't remember later. So we'll remind you at the end of that. So welcome June Huck. What a joy to be with you, Judy. Thank you for the privilege of us just having a conversation. We're new friends, even though we're both from Dallas, Texas, but we're new friends now. We are new friends and I'm loving it already. So June, I am looking forward to learning from you myself and especially to providing real help for our listeners. So let's get started.

2:50 First question I have for you, a little background on it. Though good parenting doesn't guarantee good choices in our children, nor does bad parenting guarantee they'll make bad choices. Because I know examples on both sides, but we do know that parenting really matters. So what are some good parenting guidelines that will help in rearing children who are more likely to make better choices? Just to realize, being a parent is a privilege that you have to be a provider, protector initially, a teacher, a trainer, a defender, a discipler of children.

3:37 The reason those roles are so important is you're learning the whole time and our need is to be dependent on God to give us. The Bible is very clear that the focus of wisdom is essential and you don't know it all. And when you have children, whenever you get those children, wherever and however they're in your family, they will be different. And therefore having certain goals, having certain priorities will be vital. For example, some people would say, I know there's an issue of it's important to have boundaries.

4:25 Some people don't know that, but they do. And boundaries are really designed, they can be outer boundaries, some do's and don'ts, but they're designed to build internal character so that when you're not present, they will naturally, because of how you have trained them, they will learn more and more to be conformed to the character of Christ. And so you're raising a child of whatever age or influencing a son, a daughter, emotionally, spiritually, and in a way, what that gives us the emotional security, if there is genuine love.

5:14 And there are times, and I know Judy, you can understand this, kids are not their lovable fellows that we would wish they would be. Our responsibility, however we fit in, if we have influence, it is to literally do what is in their best interest. Now, love does what's best for the other person. Would you not agree? Yes, absolutely. It wants to. The problem is sometimes it won't look loving to your son or daughter. But they will interpret it as you're being whatever.

5:57 You don't care about me because you're not letting me do what I want to do. But one thing we've got to be aware of is love does what's best in behalf of another person. So at times you have to say no to a son or daughter so that you can say yes to God. There are times when you have to say no to people so that you can say yes to God. And this can really free parents to be doing what they at times, well, I know I should not permit this. And part of the problem is with permissive parenting, often the assumption is I just, I need to be buddy.

6:43 I need to be a grand first to my son, to my daughter. And I would say, no, you need to be the parent. You need to be a parent. One thing that I am very concerned about is what is going on in our culture, all kinds of things regarding children. And oh, they need to choose their own gender. That's just one example. But at the age of 25 to 28, that's when the brain, the prefrontal cortex, the brain fully develops. Right. So from 25 to 28. So at times we have to be on the alert to do what is most loving for a son or a daughter or the people around us.

7:29 By the way, sometimes you may be more like the parent of a nephew, a niece. And if someone is advocating their role, I happen to have that kind of situation early on. There are things going on and all I can tell you is it's not that I wasn't their parent. I'm thinking of one young man. Let's see, he could sit on his dreadlocks. His dreadlocks were that long. And he was raised by my sister and her husband was an atheist. She grew up an atheist. And fortunately, I was his favorite relative, but it was so unusual that I'm talking about my brother-in-law.

8:15 They allowed him to be on marijuana, 10th grade, and they were concerned he would not graduate high school. And I remember my sister telling me that, and I'm just listening now, I was not her favorite person. At the time I was the epitome of everything she did not want to be. She wrote that in a doctoral thesis. And I never understood why. I now understand why. But I didn't understand what is her anger toward me or just a resentment. And she doesn't, you know, didn't claim to be a Christian. But I just remember I, Teddy came to see me for a number of weeks.

8:57 He was going to try to work in the family business, but he couldn't pass the drug test. So I said, we had to go home for Christmas. I said, Teddy, I've spent three hours doing the research just on marijuana. And I've highlighted it on the plane back to Boston. Would you be willing to read what I've written, what I've marked? And he said, you spent three hours for me? I said, yes, Teddy, I love you. And he said, I wouldn't do it for anyone else, but I'll do it for you and on the plane. And he grabbed my arm. He said, you do that for me?

9:39 I said, of course I would. And so he got up the marijuana, came back to Dallas and he was painfully employed here. But he was hearing things now spiritually he had never heard before. In fact, I'll just do a quick fast forward. Ten days before my brother-in-law, who was a symphony conductor before he died of a brain tumor, I presented the plan of salvation. And when I finished and I used it in illustrations, because he had cancer, I said, if I had the gift to say, this is the cure and I put it before you, at these hills, we'll say they're killed, you have a choice.

10:21 You can take them or not. And all I can say to you is when you receive Jesus as a personal Lord and Savior, you had to receive him like you would have to receive this gift of that cure. That would be a fabulous. And I said, I don't have those skills, but I just letting you know. And I could give the scriptures. I would give these specifics. He said at the end, he said, June, I've never heard this before. Wow. And yet he had been all over the world, literally conducting. And I thought, wow. And then 10 days later, I had flown back to Boston and had my sister said, June, I just want you to know Charles came to know God because of your conversation.

11:08 And I'm a skeptic. I don't just assume what people say, but she kept saying, June, don't you understand what I'm saying? I can say is she said he was telling everybody about this conversation. But who would have come in and pretend 10 days? So my point is we don't know who's going to be in our lives. We don't know the relationships that we will forge, but we need to be open and say, God, is there any way you want to use me in the life of this person, that person, because sometimes they will not have heard truth to set them free.

11:48 And yet Jesus is the one who says it's truth that sets us free, but it's God's truth. And so when you give, love does what's best for the other person. And I think that's vital to understand that means you won't give in at times when you're being pressured to. At times you do have to say no to people so that you can say yes to God's. That's beautiful. Another thought, I know we were talking earlier and you talked about not knowing people who authentically knew God or walked with him or lived like they did. And what would be helpful to our listeners to understand what it means to a child, especially in your home, if you have an authentic relationship with God?

12:40 Well, the reason I can speak to that is I had a father who said Christianity is a crutch. He said, I'm not a Christian. I don't have to go by Christian ethics. And that was when I was actually confronting him with the women in his life. And he had three families going on concurrently and we were the third family. And so I was in a church, Judy. My mother wanted us to be in church. And we didn't live with our father because again, he had another family. But I remember being asked at later when I ended up being in a biblical based church.

13:20 And that was stunning. It was changed. I've never seen anything like it. I didn't know. I knew nothing about the Bible, even though I was in church. And so I was asked, Jen, are you a Christian? And I said, yes. And I was sincere. And I was sincerely wrong at the same time. I didn't even know what that meant. I never heard of having a relationship with God through Christ. And so I remember going to someone after six months. Now this new church, I was a teenager. I was a sophomore in high school, junior in high school.

14:01 And I went to this Bible teacher. I had never heard the Bible. I'd been to Sunday school, but I'd never heard the Bible taught. Nobody at the church that I went to originally took a Bible. And then to realize that this teacher, she would help us. She would say, would you turn to so and so? Well, I didn't know any of the books in the Bible, so I didn't know how to get around. And people would sit by me and they would help me. But see, I saw in so many of those young people, I wanted whatever it was they had. Because so many of them had, all I can say it was like this wellspring of depth.

14:44 And I was just observing. I was very quiet. I didn't tell anybody about my family situation. And just the kindness. And they would say, June, Christianity is not a religion. It's a relationship with God and with God through Jesus Christ. And I didn't understand. I thought, of course, it's a religion. Why would they say that? But I didn't challenge anybody. Then when I began to see the scriptures, I think that was it. There was a scripture that said, believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. Lord, I didn't even know that meant master, ruler, owner. It's giving him ownership of you.

15:26 It's giving him control of your life. But I didn't know that. I thought it just meant you believe that Jesus walked on earth. And I didn't deny that. I wasn't opposing that. And so when I began to see as many as received him, Lord Jesus, to them he gave the right to become children of God. To receive him, what does that mean? To receive him, to allow him to literally be our Lord and Savior.

16:06 And we are saved, which will help him to have control of our lives. That was just stunning. That was the new brand new. It was like, but I wanted what these other students had. And so I was absorbing, I was absorbing, I was trying to gain wisdom. And so I went to this one woman who was this Bible teacher. I said, how do I know if I'm a Christian? I think I am. And she said, June, she said, I can't know your heart, like God knows your heart. But if you weren't a Christian, would you be willing to do whatever God would want you to do to become a Christian?

16:49 I didn't answer immediately, Judy. I was not that. That makes sense to me. It doesn't make sense to a lot of people. But math is equations and I'm highly logical and rational. And I thought, what would that mean to receive? Because I'm beginning to learn some terms. And I remember thinking, I don't know if it would work. I saw a bunch of people who walked down an aisle. I'd never seen that before. And they said that they were giving their lives to Christ. But what if it doesn't work? And I thought, if it doesn't work, then I guess it doesn't work. But what if it would have worked and I would miss what these others have?

17:35 And they use leaders and they use themselves. They had what it was that dream. And so I was very logical and I wish I had the faith as big as a mustard seed. I think I only had about 18 of a mustard seed, meaning I just said, I will try it. And I just prayed a very simple prayer and I didn't know how to pray. So it was like she led me in a prayer to humble my heart and to receive Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior, giving and control of my life.

18:17 And I remember when it was over, I thought, wonder if I'll see something in the sky or up the end. There wasn't any of that, but I didn't realize I began to change. I'm going to be candid. I had a hatred for my father because of how he treated my mother. And I'm saying that because I know what it's like to even up. The truth is I had a plan at age 14. I had a friend whose father was with the FBI. And I said, what would happen if a boy kills his father? And I gave some scenario and he said he would be in the juvenile detention center.

18:57 And then in 2018, he would be released because he's juvenile. Got that four years. I can do that. So I went to mother. Wow, I said, Bob, I figured out how to solve the problem, said our family. I know what I know what to do and I can do this. And she said, Oh, really, honey? And I said, now listen carefully, I've got a plan to kill dad. And I want you to know, though, for years, I'll be out of that juvenile detention center. And I can do anything for four years. I promise you, and obviously hesitated.

19:40 She said, honey, I appreciate what you're trying to do, but that really won't be necessary. And I thought, shoot, I thought, shoot the person, but shoot. I had the plan and it doesn't surprise me if I hear of a son or a daughter who kills or attempts to kill a parent. Because if you're being loyal, see, this was me, I was being loyal to my mother. I hated how dad treated my mom. So I can do this. I obviously needed to change heart and I didn't tell anyone.

20:20 That was one conversation I had with my mother. Didn't tell anybody about it for years. The truth is, I couldn't see that my dad would ever change. And that was part of it is, don't ever change. And then we'll still have this pain. And I'll just say that I watched my mother. Oh my goodness, I watched mother change because she got people around her who knew the word of God and knew God personally. And they taught her. It was beautiful to see. I was watching change take place. And then finally, after becoming a Christian the following year, I didn't know what to do with the word forgive because that didn't seem right, Judy.

21:05 How can it be right to just let somebody off the hook? That can't be right. I couldn't take the scriptures out of the Bible. And the Bible said, bear with each other and forgive whatever grievance you have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And so I finally, I can tell you, I didn't grasp the concept of forgiveness until actually much later, but I learned we're not letting a person just off the hook. We're letting, we're taking them off of our emotional hook, that bitterness, that hatred, that anger toward that person who has wounded us, who's hurt us.

21:48 But, Jen, could you just expand on that a little? Because I think forgiveness is a huge part of surviving with a prodigal, both to forgive that person who's made your life crazy and painful and broken your heart, but also asking forgiveness of them as well for the things you might have done wrong. Could you talk about that a little? See, now you've gone from preaching to middling. Isn't that the phrase? I remember I was 20 something, I was a youth director and I had clearly a changed life to Christ. And so now I've become the junior high director at this huge church and I had 600 in the junior high division along and then later became the college and career director.

22:37 I just was learning so much. But this one area of forgiveness, again, it didn't seem rational. I told you I'm logical and so someone asked a question, a large group, how many of you feel you are the exception to forgiving and that your situation is different so therefore you can't forgive? Out of this group of 100 and some odd people, there were four of us who raised our hands. And a man who was a doctor came up to me and said, Jen, I saw that you raised your hand. He said, is it possible that you want to consider a, he actually said, is there anything that you need to forgive your father for?

23:30 And I thought, I never thought of that. And he said, what percentage do you think he was wrong and that you were wrong? And I said, I was perhaps 2% wrong. He's 98% wrong. I didn't consider myself a judgemental person. I had facts. I had all kinds of things that I could look to. And so he said, aren't you responsible for your 2%? So I went to him and I said, man, please speak to you. He looked up with his glasses toward the end of his nose and he had his newspaper out and he just looked at me. I said, I realize I'd have been an ungrateful daughter.

24:14 I've never thanked you for a roof over my head, for books for school, for food on the table. And I've come to ask, would you be willing to forgive me? That's beautiful. And he just kept looking and finally he said something that would not be characteristic of him. He said, the pleasure was all mine. We went right back to the newspaper. No doubt conversation. And I doubted. But I knew I did what was right. And do you know, I didn't even recognize this until much, much later. My relationship changed with him from that point on. And I now knew, by the way, I had told parents as a youth director, the most difficult thing for a parent is an ungrateful child, an ungrateful daughter, son.

25:08 And I realized now I've been ungrateful because I hadn't been verbalizing appreciation. I was just focusing. I literally had a black filter on a photograph and photography, put a lens on a camera and that lens is called a black filter. So a day thing becomes nights. In this case, I didn't want to see good in him because I thought, why isn't somebody showing him how wrong he is? Nobody ever confronts him about anything because he was a president of a company and he had only yes people. And so I was trying to be his convictor without saying anything.

25:49 I knew not to talk because if I did, he would take it out on mother. And so my point is I finally also saw scripture pray for those who persecute you. I thought, oh, so I have to do something. Okay. So for the first time I began to pray that he would have changed life to Christ. And I thought, oh, with me being critical of him, nobody wants to change because of a person who's critical toward you. You don't change for them. And even if you do change, you don't tell them. So Judy, it was, I was the one who had to change.

26:33 And then I began to look what is most loving. And see, this was, I thought this can't be real in the Bible. Love your enemies. I thought that nobody can do that. I just thought, well, that must be some high ideal. But see, I didn't understand, I got my love seeks the highest good of another person. Yes. And so that's the highest frame of love. And so Judy, I had to learn, okay, what could be good for me to do for my dad? And I remember specifically, okay, I've got to do, I want to do something concrete. He's always misplacing this red address book kind of plastic thing, but it was fat, all these numbers.

27:21 And you could call people at any hour, I'm sure. And so the point is, I remember locating it and at the dinner table, he said, where's my address book? He would bark this out periodically. Where's my address book? And I said, dad, I know where it is. I'll go get it. And so I slipped out of my chair, took it from his bedroom and just laid it to his side at the dinner table and didn't say anything. He was so shocked at my attitude. I really wanted him to have a changed life. And so I had to change and God changed me.

28:02 I didn't change me, I promise you. And I just am so thankful that I could read those scriptures. Love your enemies, meaning do what is in his best interest, whatever would benefit him the most. And so I would look for things that he would like instead of me fighting him. So as a teenager, I'm the one who had to change. And even as a young adult, but all I can say is in retrospect, as I looked at the overall picture, it was after I changed that he began to change toward me and did not have a critical spirit toward me.

28:46 That's I think such a beautiful picture of what God calls us all to. Yes, our prodigals hurt us and there are things that we will have to forgive them for, but there are almost certainly things that the way we've spoken to them, the way we've acted, when we set boundaries, the way we dishonor them in talking about it, those are things we have to ask forgiveness for. And I know for me, I had to with my son on a number of occasions and with my daughters who were mostly good, I still had to ask forgiveness sometime.

29:29 And so as hard as it is for us to forgive, it's often harder to ask forgiveness. I think one thing is can be also a misunderstanding about forgiveness. I had written a book called How to Forgive When You Don't Feel Like It, because I didn't feel like it. And the person who did a review of it, first thing I ever got on it, a man said, I'm surprised at the content of your book, he said, I just thought it was just going to be a super sentimental thing. And he said, I'm so stunned. He said, in fact, because of your conclusion about, not conclusion, but your assessment of what forgiveness is and what reconciliation is and the difference, and he said, this is the first time I've been able to forgive someone who I've had no relationship with for years and years.

30:27 And so what I'd state is forgiveness is not the same thing as reconciliation. That's why a lot of people will not forgive. They think it's shame. And forgiveness requires no relationship. In other words, forgiveness is directed one way, whereas reconciliation is reciprocal, occurring two ways in that forgiveness is a free gift to the one who has broken trust, whereas reconciliation is a restored relationship based on restored. So at times we are called to forgive. And that means we take them off of your emotional hook and you put that person onto God's hook because he says it is mine to avenge.

31:13 I will repay. So we just say, Lord, I give this, whoever is the difficult one in our lives, I just release my anger to you by my heart and the area that I can blame. And I just release all that to you. And I pray that when you're what you're going to do with this person in my life, but I thank you that I can trust you with me to do what is right because you're leading me to take my offender off of my emotional hook instead of being judging and just continually blaming and accusing.

32:05 I know that this is not right. And so I choose to let you just take me to the right heart. And I pray one day my dad will have a changed life through Christ. And then I leave it to them. And that was huge. So at times when we think that, oh, because many people think to have reconciliation would mean that then you've forgiven, no, that can be a stumbling block for people, but it's a misunderstanding. At times we will not have a restored relationship, but still we are told bear with each other and forgive whatever grievance we have against one another.

32:53 Forgive as the Lord forgave you. So what we see is forgiveness is unconditional, regardless of a lack of repentance, whereas reconciliation is conditional based on repentance. So I know that one of the things that you talk about besides that very excellent explanation of what forgiveness is that when it's someone you love, you have a heart desire to also see reconciliation and restoration. Do you have some thoughts on how that can happen? I was getting ready to teach on the topic of prodigal people.

33:36 I thought about very candidly, this sister who was for some reason had a great difficulty with me. I didn't know why, but I, when I looked for and made all the difference in the world was look for common ground. To start out, where can be that which would be meaningful, what would be meaningful to this other person? Now what we're talking about is all the way from colors. Do you know what the favorite color is for the people in your life? I knew my sister's favorite color was blue.

34:20 She had a parrot. There's all kinds of things. She became the net bastard to, to, uh, Austria from the United States. She was excellent at what she did. And, but she had two children at the time when she went ages nine at six. I was back in Dallas after her swearing in ceremony in DC. I'm on the hunt for three kinds of items, funny Americana and spiritual inspiration. And I'm looking for American looking gifts because they're going to be in a foreign country. And so every three, every third week I would send to the nine year old that became the 10 year old, the 11 year old, 12 year old, because they're in the best or typically for four years.

35:06 And so I would send a funny gift because I thought, what can I do? What can I do to love my sister? Well, she doesn't respond to me at all. And so I thought that maybe what she loves her children. So that's what I'll do. I'll reach out to them. And I've all I can tell you is after four years, I got a letter from her and I just surfaced it a few months ago and I thought, did I keep that letter? And I put, I looked on her file under her name and sure enough, thank you for the kindness you've extended to my kids over these past difficult years.

35:50 These gifts you sent them have helped them stay connected to the family in spite of the miles. The personal interest you've shown have been very meaningful to them. Our own relationship has blossomed in recent years due to your tending. I appreciate this more than I can say. And all I can tell you is I kept looking over and over. What would my sister hold? What could she hold? And that's what I looked at. Look at what that other person loves. And then, and so sure enough, but then later she had me come, she taught at Harvard and so she, so then she asked me to come speak at her conference of 200 people for women, religion and politics.

36:41 And she said, she said, you can invite two or three fundamentalists like you. We had fabulous talks and then I learned what the stumbling block was. Later I learned. She said, Jen, I can't be a Christian like you. And I said, what are you saying? She said, I don't believe the Bible. What do you not believe about the Bible? I don't believe wives to your husbands. And then she said, look what dad did to mother and look what mother did. She just submitted. I thought, oh, my soul, so then all I did was show, I said, in the Bible, you're right. It does say wives submit to your husbands. But I said, there's a literary law because you're an author.

37:24 There's a literary law. Context is king. It matters what the paragraph before, what the point of the book is. And she said, yes, I agree. So look at the context. The words just before wives submit to your husbands is submit one to another out of reverence for Christ. So the context is mutual submission. And yes, it does say wives submit to your husband. And then several verses later, it says husbands love your wives as Christ left the church and gave himself up for her. So he has to be willing to die for her, not her die at his hands.

38:05 And she said, oh, my God, are you serious? The Bible really says that. I said, it was phenomenal. So that's what I went and spoke on at Carpenter because I knew that a lot of people would have no understanding of taking that one scripture out of its context. But see, when you more and more are investing your life in what the other person loves, values, looks common ground, and it makes a huge difference. Do you know what the favorite food is, the favorite whatever things that you can do that we all can do to find common ground?

38:47 That way we earn the right to enter into a dialogue that can be incredibly meaningful and have a relationship because my relationship with my sister has totally changed now. Oh, June, I love that. One of the things God said to me when I actually had grown into a being truly in love with this boy he had sent us that, Lord, can't he ever love me back? And to him to love me was a betrayal of his birth mom. And so I understood that. But still, and the Lord said, Judy, you're missing something here.

39:30 Love means there are no conditions. It means you love no matter what. And that's you look for the ways to show your love, but even if it ever comes back. And so when you have a person in your life who's really, again, broken your heart, it's the kind of thing that you're talking about, the forgiveness, the looking for the ways that you can connect and reconnect if necessary to reconcile with people. So those are just beautiful thoughts. And people can change. Oh, yes. People do change. We've got to be so aware. It may take a person to literally, whether it's a son or daughter, whoever's been wayward, whoever's the product, you don't know what later can happen.

40:22 I'm thinking about now even about a prodigal dad who was a I just was just saying for funeral. And this man was horrible to his children. He started out, though, as a pastor. And then he just went way. It was awful the way he until the grown children had a real struggle forgiving. And yet did. And yet it was when he got Alzheimer's, all of a sudden, he's saying, I've been a and he used some bad language. I've been this. And he said, it's been awful. And then he began to cry. He said, I've been a terrible dad.

41:03 And all of a sudden, it melted the hearts of his children. And so sometimes a person has to become like a child. The Bible says you don't have like a child to receive Jesus. You have to be willingly receptive of the Lord Jesus Christ. And that may be toward the end of their lives. But this man became a child. And all of a sudden, the whole relationship with a repent drew true repentance took place. So sometimes it's at the end of their lives. But we need to allow people a time to change in our hearts.

41:44 That's really true. June, I think we're going to need to wrap up here. We are so grateful for you giving us stories that demonstrate not just telling us how to do things, but telling the stories to show us the ways to live and love anyone in our lives and especially our wandering loved ones. Whether that loved one is a child or a parent, as you've talked about a lot. It's a privilege to be with you because and you have great wisdom to share. Those who are listening, continue to listen for the wisdom that Judy will share because we all need wise people in our lives.

42:29 Thank you very much. To my listeners, remember I asked you to jot down something you learned. Maybe it was about loving someone, asking forgiveness, giving forgiveness, seeking reconciliation. How do you connect with a person where there's estrangement? What can you do? What's a specific thing that you can apply in your life with your prodigal? So I hope you'll find a very tangible way to see a difference in your life. You can read more about June and her books and the things she teaches in the show notes and you can find out some resources.

43:15 And we are giving away three of her books. The books we're going to make available are first, How to Forgive When You Don't Feel Like It, just like what she was talking about. Bonding with your teen through boundaries. Now we often think boundaries with teens are going to just create antagonism, but she's saying bonding with them through it. And then this one can be true for most of us sometimes. The Answer to Anger. So if you would like to receive one of these three books, I invite you to take a moment to click on in the show notes where it says my website, it has judydouglass.com and there you will see a tab connect and you go there, give us your information and say, book from June.

44:10 And we will put your name in the drawing for those three books. So I hope maybe you'll win one. And I want you to also take a minute to rate the podcast and if you're on Apple, you can actually write a review that just helps other people discover it. And I want you to know that next week we're going to begin a series of five sessions on the hope. When you love a product goal, one of your great needs is hope. And so join us next week. I promise you will find some help to find hope. So again, thank you so much June. And we're just grateful for your stories.

44:52 I love your vulnerability and your willingness to share the hard things that God called you to when you finally met him. I'm deeply humbled that I get to be a part of your wonderful listeners. So thank you and God bless you June and God bless each of you who are listening.