Love, Pray, Listen–Interview with Mary DeMuth, episode 78

0:00 If you love a prodigal, you can discover, help, and hope for your wilderness journey right here at When You Love a Prodigal. And also help and hope for your own life journey. I hope the past four episodes on the various reasons that our loved ones might become prodigals have been helpful to you in understanding what might be contributing to the distressing choices that he or she is making. And today my guest is going to give you some real help as she has lived through what you probably are living through.

0:41 I remember I was about to board a plane to somewhere in the world when my phone rang. Mary DeMuth was calling. We were friends, but she didn't usually call me. But one of her children was giving her some heartache and making some choices she wasn't thrilled with. And so we talked and hopefully I gave her some helpful input. But I can testify that she has listened as God has walked through the years with her. Her kids are in better places now and so is Mary. With her just released today new book, Love, Pray, Listen, Parenting Your Wayward Adult Kids with Joy.

1:29 I can't think of a better title to help all of us as we seek joy in our journeys with our prodigals. Thank you, Mary DeMuth, and welcome to When You Love a Prodigal. Well, it is such a privilege to be here and I deeply remember that conversation that we had and I mostly just cried through it all. But I was so grateful for your wise counsel. And sometimes we just need folks like that in our lives, don't we? Yes. So to my listeners, as Mary talks with us, remember to jot down any ideas that you can apply.

2:11 The book title, Love, Pray, Listen, gives you a great place to start. How do you do each of those? And I think you're going to be able to come away with some really practical help. So, Mary, the message in your book hits a tender spot for many parents today and the fears of many more. It's a scary place out there. And if we don't have a prodigal, we know friends who do. And so it's a scary thing. So share a little bit of your story and then what caused you to write this book.

2:54 Well, I think 100% of parents today have experienced some sort of prodigal thing that has happened with their kids. And so we definitely have walked through that as well. But actually, strangely, the impetus for writing this book was outside of my family, although I've walked through some things with my kids that were very deep and very hard. I was experiencing a I was in an email group of prayer warriors. And there was one lady on the email group that was so sad all the time. And she had she would say things like, well, they didn't send me a birthday card this year.

3:37 And she'd have these dreams of having kind of like a compound of everyone living on the same acreage and all these, you know, family gatherings and all of our kids had gone astray and she was completely harmed by it and could not see past it. And it just broke my heart because I thought, you know, at the time when I went through that, I my kids were under my roof. And so I wasn't really thinking about it in terms of it being personal, which it would be later. But I just ached for her. And so that was actually the kernel of the reason why I wrote it, because I had to believe that the Lord has actually our most fruitful ministry ahead of us when our children leave the nest and how sad that the enemy of our souls is going to try to take us out and prevent that fruitfulness by our own sadness that we can't get over.

4:31 Well, I agree with you that, yeah, every parent, but I know many, because you're talking about the ones who have left the nest, the adult children, and I could just list ten with just off the top of my head of people who's maybe 30, whose kids are, you know, gone. Some of them have just walked away from the Lord, but some of them have walked away from them, too. And both of those are scary and hurtful. And, you know, I know the ones who aren't hearing from them at all, who have married someone who's totally pulled them away from their family.

5:15 And so your message is so needed, because what you do with the kids in your home is a little different than how you're going to be able to relate to the ones who are out of the home. So what does it look like to be the parent of an adult prodigal? It looks like heartache and a lot of tears and a lot of wrestling with questions of why, especially if you were raised as a parent to believe certain truths, that if you did all these, you know, A to Z things that you were promised to have this, it was like a machine.

5:59 And if you did A, B, C, and D outside of the machine when they were launched, everything's going to be perfect. And so when it doesn't turn out that way, there's some questions that you have for the Lord. And there's also some reestablishing of theology that you may have been believing some really weird, bad theology in the first place. But it's so comforting to know if I could just do this formula, I will guarantee that my kids will follow Jesus. But there is no formula. And I'm sad to say I wish there were, but there isn't one. Oh, and you are so right. There is no formula. Some things will help. Some things might hurt, but there's no formula.

6:41 So your title, Love, Pray, Listen. Now, that sounds kind of easy. What does it look like to develop these steps into new rhythms with your adult children? You've loved your children growing up. You have certainly prayed for them and prayed for them and prayed for them. And you've tried to be a good listener. Some parents are good at that, others not as much. So now they're out of your home. What do you do? How do you love and pray and listen in reality?

7:24 Well, first, I want to address what you talked about in terms of parental estrangement, which is a huge topic and a really big angst. Really big? Yes. There are parents that have been ghosted by their kids and there is no relationship. And at that point, you have to love from afar. You have to pray from afar and you have to listen from afar. And there's a great amount of faith involved in laying your adult child in God's hands and really believing and trusting that God loves them more than you do and has a plan for them outside of maybe what you expected. And so I just want to say an empathy, a bit of empathy to those who are in that place.

8:09 It is not easy. And I will not ever say that it is. So that is a heartache that you did not expect and you were having to navigate. I would say that one way to navigate it well is to find a couple other parents who are experiencing that, which is what Judy is gathering in her group, which is amazing. So that you don't feel alone, because I think even today I got a text from someone. They said, I was giving up. I was losing hope. I saw that your book released today. I bought it. And then we had a little bit of a dialogue back and forth. And she said, it doesn't seem like anyone, even though I know people are dealing with this, it seems like no one is.

8:49 And so she hasn't been able to talk to anyone about it. But I think in my talking to parents of adult kids, it's very widespread. And there's a spectrum, but it's very widespread. And I would say most kids, if they're really becoming adults, they have to deconstruct a bit. They have to ask those questions. Otherwise, they're robots. So everyone is going to experience this some way or another. Yeah, I know so many. I mean, friends, you know, not just ones that I've learned in the ministry. I know a lot of friends. And are there things that parents could think about beforehand that could make a difference when it comes to this time?

9:37 Yes. And the book's structure is to go through 1 Corinthians 13 in the love is and the love is not passage. And it really trains you what love looks like. And part of that is learning how to have open ended conversations with your kids, whether they're in your home or outside of your home. And also part of that is learning to find common ground between the two. One thing I learned as someone who has been a missionary overseas, we lived in France. You can have an argument around a dinner table and part as friends because they're just very interested in having a cool argument.

10:17 They think it's fun, which as an American, I was like, they hate me. But I learned something about Americans. Americans have to have a winner and a loser. And if we have that kind of view in the way we talk to our kids, especially about politics, then we are going to ruin relationship. But instead to seek to understand and ask questions and finding common ground, which is a lot harder. If you can learn how to do that, you're going to experience a better relationship with your adult kids, because most likely they're going to have different opinions than you do. Yes, that's really true. And it's not just politics being a major one, but what you believe and what it looks like to walk with God and the relationship to the church and how they raise their children. You will have opinions and they may be different from theirs.

11:11 So these are all the kinds of things that if we don't do them well, if we don't learn to be able to talk and have differing opinions and not have a winner and a loser, that's a great way to look at it. Then that's when we start to lose them. And yeah, that's really, really helpful. How do you move forward when you've had this expectation of what your family's going to look like? Your daughter has gotten married and she had their children or your son has married someone who really comes from a different kind of background.

11:55 And how do you go forward with that? One way that has really helped me has been to pretend that my adult children are my neighbors in my neighborhood. And I think about the person next door that may or may not know Jesus. Well, how am I going to interact with them? I'm going to ask them questions. I'm going to be curious about what they say. I'm not going to debate them about their political or ideological beliefs. I'm going to love them. I'm going to bring them flowers from my yard. I'm going to provide for them if they have a need and I have an ability to meet it or make chicken noodle soup if they're sick. These are things that I would do to a neighbor.

12:39 Unfortunately, a lot of us have a lot of baggage or relational baggage with our kids and we knew them when they were four and 10 and 13. And so there's so much there that we can't see them as a neighbor. We only see them enmeshed as our children. And so removing them a little bit in our mind, just having a little bit change of mindset and asking yourself the question, how would I treat my neighbor that doesn't know Jesus? And that may help you as you love your adult kids. I think that's beautiful. And to step away and not just be the parent. So how do you continue to show love when they may or may not be receptive to that?

13:25 Another mindset shift that has helped me in that area is to remember myself in my 20s. And I don't even agree with my own theology from when I was in my 20s. And yet I can give myself grace and say I was just on a journey. And I don't agree with all my choices that I made. And I don't certainly agree with all my financial choices that I made or my job choices or all sorts of relational choices that I made. But as I look back, I see that God had me on this journey. And so to look at my adult kids and say, if I can afford myself the grace of being young and irresponsible in my 20s, then surely I can give that same grace to my kids.

14:07 And I think it's telling. We've had some disruption in our family in different times. And there was one particular experience where one of our children was just going through heartache. And the first thing the child did was call and cry and then come home. And that to me is and we don't agree on a lot of things like there's a lot of opinions that are different. But that child knew that even though we disagree on opinions and we try to be super kind and respectful, not like dogmatic about it, but that we loved that child and that our home was a safe place.

14:48 That that's really true. At Billy Graham's funeral, his daughter, Ruth, not his wife, Ruth, his daughter, Ruth, shared her testimony. And Ruth had made a lot of bad choices, had gone against his recommendation on someone she married and and other things. And then she kind of came to the end of it and decided to go home. And she said, I didn't know what would happen when I got home. And she said, but there was my dad outside waiting for me as I drove up and gave me this wonderful hug and said, welcome home.

15:36 And so to me, that was a perfect example of the kind of way that that we want to be able to at least express to our kids to know, even when we disagree and we will often, even when we don't agree with their choices, that we can still let them be who they are and learn the things they're learning and they'll always be welcome and loved here. And that's just a beautiful, beautiful thing. So what would be some scriptures that have been helpful to you?

16:17 Not ones to tell them, ones to tell yourself. You know, that passage about love in studying it deeply has really changed my attitude about everything. And so that those I think we sometimes think First Corinthians 13 is a marital passage. It's not. Paul is writing it to a bunch of broken people in Corinth who have made a whole mess of relationships. And so he's not saying a marital love is patient, marital love is kind. He's saying agape love, relational love is kind, is patient, not arrogant, not boastful, all these things. And I think that has been very helpful. The other thing that's helped me is just simply the story of scripture.

16:58 In the book of Genesis, we see God as a parent of adult children and they soon become adult prodigals. So if the God of the universe has children and they rebel and they're in a perfect environment with a perfect parent, then God can have empathy, the kind of empathy we need because he knows what it's like. And he experiences that pain on a global scale, times billions. And so if we are hurting and we are broken, we can run to the God who truly, truly understands what it's like to have his children walk away from him. That is so true also.

17:38 You've got a lot of wisdom. So talk a little more about the fact that you're basically going through 1 Corinthians 13. And what are some of the aha things that you learned in that or which of those numerous descriptions really hit you when it came to your children? You know, the one that surprised me was boastful and envious. Of course, love is not those things. And as I talked to my husband about that before I wrote the book, he said we need to look at what people do in comparison to other families. And so when you look at another family and you envy them because they seem to have everything altogether, it will undermine your love.

18:23 And it is not a form of love to envy others, right? So you can either become you can look at other families and you can either become envious because they're not they seem perfect and you're not. Or they could be all messed up and you could be boastful and be like, well, my family doesn't do that. And so both of those things are dangerous. Both of those involve pride. And that really kind of was that was completely convicting to me on a personal level. And then the other one, I think, is just love is kind to be weird. Just we've lost it. We've lost kindness. It's a fruit of the spirit. And we pretend it's not.

19:03 And we think telling the truth with anger and wrath is a fruit of the spirit is it is not. And so I cannot tell you because of social media how people have lost their filters and lost their minds. And especially seeing parents and kids debate on Facebook in angry tones where there is no ability to have a normal conversation has ruined relationships. And I would say that if it's more important to you that your opinion prevail than it is to love your child, you need to examine your heart. Bless you. Bless you. So one of the ones that I found the most interesting and challenging is keeping no account of wrongs.

19:49 And maybe you could unpack that a little. Yes. And what that doesn't mean is that we don't acknowledge the wrongs, that we don't lament the wrongs. We need to lament. We have lost the art of grief. We don't know how to do it. So I'm not saying deny. I'm not saying push it down and pretend it didn't happen. But I am saying after you've worked through the pain of what your adult kid has done and how it's affected you, then you have to work through that enough to where if that adult child came back to you today, just like Ruth came back to Billy, would you have a barrier there to be able to embrace them?

20:33 And I experienced this in a different way, but kind of similarly with my mom. There was a lot of pain between my mom and I. And the Lord said to me one day, what if she comes back to you? And I thought that will never happen. But he said, what if she comes back to you? Will you be willing to embrace her in that moment or will you still be bitter? And by God's powerful, surprising ways, he brings her back to me. And I had done my heart work so that I could embrace her wholly and fully. And so that's my challenge to parents is name it, work through it, but definitely get to the forgiveness side of things so that if they come back, there's not going to be a whole bunch of stuff to rehash.

21:18 But there is just this embrace, just like the prodigal son came back to his father. His father didn't say, well, you just did all this stuff and now everything's ruined. I've had to do this and this and this before. Yeah, no tisks, tisks, tisks. He gave him a robe, a ring, hugs, fatted calf, all the things. There was no questions asked. He just embraced him. And so how can you get your heart to the place where you can embrace your adult child, even if they come back broken to you? Yeah, and they often do come back. That's a hope that at least I've seen that they do come back, not every one, but mostly they do if we have been like the father in Luke 15, willing to welcome.

22:10 He came back. He was an adult child because I don't think he was just still a teenager, but maybe he was. They were considered adults pretty earlier than we are now. But he didn't know what his father would say. And yet he still thought that there was a chance at least he could come and work there, if not live as a son. But the father had done just what you said. I have a picture that he's been watching out that window every day looking for him because how else would he have seen him from afar? And he had done that hard work of forgiving the very painful things he had done.

22:57 So to love, to pray, how do you pray? What are some ways? Usually with tears. This year, as a matter of fact, there were some pretty dark moments, and there were times I literally, and I'm not exaggerating, I literally fell on the floor in a heap and just could not get any higher than the floor and wet the floor with my tears. And I think that that reflects the parenthood, the parental love that I have, but also this desperate place of understanding that when my kids were in my house, I had a modicum of control, even though it was illusionary.

23:41 I still believed it to be true. But once they leave, that modicum of control is completely gone and the illusion is gone. And you just realize how helpless you are. And that's my prayers have been those prayers of desperation. And this isn't just for prodigal kids. This is for my adult kids going through this crazy world that they live in. For kids who love Jesus, there's hard things that are going on for them as well. So it's not just relegated to a child that's questioning their faith. It's all of our kids that are facing things that are just devastating and difficult and that our generation did not have to face. And I don't have the answers for those questions.

24:21 I don't know. And so all I can do is ask God to help me and to pray that I get out of His way. And it's okay to be honest with God. It's okay to be angry with Him. It's okay to say, this is not how I wanted it to be. He is big enough and His shoulders are big enough to carry our biggest doubts. Are there any scriptures that you've held on to that you could mention that have been important for you? Yeah. One of them is out of 2 Corinthians 12, 9 and 10 where Paul is talking about his thorn in the flesh. And he asks God three times, please take this out.

25:02 And I think there's a lot of parents of adult kids that feel like their thorns are shaped like their children. Because they are. Because they are. And God says, no, I'm not going to take it from you. He says, because my power is made perfect in your weakness. And then Paul goes on to say, I'd rather boast about my weaknesses. And he's content with like insults and distresses and persecutions. Now, those are things that adult kids can do to you. He says, for when I am weak, then I am strong. And for Paul to be well content with them, that's my goal. That's my heart goal is that even when things are really hard, and of course, I'm going to cry. And of course, I'm going to acknowledge the pain, but also to learn the maturity of being content in them.

25:47 To know that because this is happening to me, I cannot rely on my own wits anymore. I have to rely on the Lord. So every problem that comes my way, every difficulty, every persecution, every insult, serves me because it shows I am weak and I need Jesus. That is a better place to be than I've got this all together. And a great contrast to many people today who claim Jesus, who they know all the truth because they've been in Scripture a lot. And so they can just say what it should be. One of the Scriptures that was probably the most important for me in our long journey was in Isaiah 60, verse 22, the last little part.

26:35 It says, I am the Lord. And it's always a pause and the Lord says, and you're not, Judy. I am the Lord. And in its time, I will do this swiftly. And my time and God's time are never the same. And we hate the hurt so much that we have, especially when there's estrangement or a real separation beyond just disagreement and different choices. It's just you just keep thinking they have to come back. They have to come back. And there's a good chance they will.

27:15 But there's no guarantee. Because if you've loved them well or even semi well, then they will remember at some point your love. But it's not a guarantee. And so you keep praying for them with tears. When you talked about I spent more time on my face on the floor in my living room, just crying out to the Lord. And you know, he says that he hears those who cry out. He's listening for those who cry out. And so if you're if you're listening, if you're crying out to the Lord about your adult child, then that's OK.

27:58 He's listening and he knows and he knows what will woo them the best. I love in Romans 2, 4, it says in one translation, don't you know that I woo them with my loving kindness? And which goes back to your saying kindness will make a difference. So all right. So we we love them with God's love, because it's probably harder for us sometimes to keep loving when they rejected it and pushed it away. And we we pray for them. We're always praying for them. But how do you listen? What does that have to do with it?

28:39 That that sounded a little different than what the other two did. Yeah, because that's a lot more or at least it's more interactional here with your other child to be able to listen to them. And I think part of that, a couple of things that have been really helpful for me is to listen to them, to know what they need and what would delight them. And so one of the things I think that's been really helpful is when one of my children expresses a desire or a need or maybe they have some like something in their house that they need or something that would make them happy or they make a passing comment, then I will fill that need with joy.

29:24 I mean, joyfully like if someone's yes. Oh, I really love this shirt. Well, then I'm going to not always, but once in a while I will buy something for them. And then the other thing about listening, I think that is really helpful is we tend to be really critical as parents. We are so used to the role of our elementary and teen kids where we are always directing and finding the fault and helping them to see the problem of their ways that we have lost the ability to find them and catch them at doing good. And so another thing that I'll do, even if my kids don't agree with me and all that kind of stuff, I can still catch them doing good and say, gosh, I'm so proud of you.

30:07 You got a new job and you're excelling at it. And a lot of times that can be through a voice message on a voice text or a text. But it also is helpful to do that physically with a card, send it in the mail, catch them doing good. It will endear them to you, not in a manipulative way, but just in a way that they see my parents are noticing and they're not always just noticing my failures. So what if they are away and they're not communicating with you? How are some ways that you could show love or listen if they're not even talking to you?

30:49 Yeah, that's a little bit more difficult, obviously, but because of social media, there are things that you can know about what they're going through. And so there are some things that you can do to help them. If you know that they're financially struggling, you can try to figure out how to pay a bill for them. And you even have to say it's you, but they'll probably figure it out. But there are things that you can still catch them doing well. And even if they don't respond and you say, I'm so proud of you, this is really amazing. And even to say, clarify, you don't even have to respond to this. And I understand that things are broken. But I just want to tell you what you're doing right now is really beautiful.

31:30 You still can do that. Now, if they've erected a boundary that says, I never want you to contact me again, then you have to wait for them to contact you. You don't want to violate that, but because they have their own self-will and they have a right to have that. So in that case, you would just cry and pray from afar. And that is what you have to do. And it happens more than I would ever imagine, because my family has stayed together pretty well. My family at birth, but then with my kids and everything, even though we don't all agree on everything.

32:11 But for sure. And yet, so it's hard for me, therefore, when I talk to so many whose children have said, don't even contact me. I don't want anything to do with you. And so do you have any words of hope for situations like that? The thing that I have come back to when I go through a trial like that is there is this sweetness that comes in my relationship with Jesus in knowing that he is suffering alongside of me and that he has experienced that as well.

32:52 And so it's not a very tangible thing. But if you go to Jesus with I am so alone, I feel so lonely, I cannot believe that I'm being estranged. He completely understands. One of his closest friends betrayed him on the earth. He poured his life into Judas, just like all the other disciples. He did miracles in front of him, just like he did for all the other disciples. He poured teaching and kindness and compassion into him, just like all the other disciples. And yet he was betrayed by his close one of his closest friends. Jesus understands. And there is something really beautiful about suffering alongside of Jesus that is going to be a major part of your growth in your relationship with him.

33:41 That's that is encouraging. Can you also think of so parents who are listening because a lot of them have younger children, either older ones and younger ones, or they have younger ones in home and they're listening to this and they're going, oh, no. What wisdom or encouragement or hope would you have for them that would be helpful? I would say that first of all, your highest calling is not parenthood. And if you think it is and you live your life that way, when your children leave and if they leave the nest and they leave the faith, you will fall apart.

34:25 Your highest calling is to be a disciple of Jesus Christ. And your kids are going to catch more from your discipleship journey than any words that you say out loud to them. And so my encouragement is if you have kids in your house right now is to fall in love with Jesus and be his disciple and demonstrate without words. You can use words, too, but to demonstrate what a life of fidelity to Jesus looks like. And that way, when your children leave the nest and if they rebel or they move away from the faith, you will not be as devastated because your highest calling was not them. Your highest calling was allegiance to Jesus.

35:08 Well, that's beautifully radical. I think that's exactly what you need to do. I love that. That was a very good response. And I hope my listeners really heard that. Yeah, that you love them. You pray for them. You listen. And if you have become used to listening in their childhood and they're growing up, then there's a much better chance that they believe you will listen when they get older. And that they'll find you can have conversation as opposed to arguments, like you said before.

35:52 That's really beautiful. Any more thoughts on 1 Corinthians 13 as you go through it? I loved going through that. That has been such an important part of my journey, is learning what it looks like to love like Jesus. And when he says, but I demonstrated my love by laying down my life for you. And in a lot of senses, we lay down our lives for our kids. And so to understand that, but then the day to day, what's it look like to do that?

36:32 I think the thing that sticks out to me is humbleness, humility, and the ability to say you're sorry. A lot of parents have regrets. I have them too. We all made mistakes. We're all a bunch of humans. And I made it a point to apologize to my kids throughout their childhood and their young adulthood, and I still do it. And so just because they've left the house doesn't mean I don't need to apologize for things I've done wrong. I don't have to keep re-apologizing for when they were five and I said that thing. But if in an interaction recently, I have done something that I just am not proud of or I feel convicted by the Spirit, I will ask their forgiveness.

37:13 And it will repair more in your relationship than you will even understand. It's a supernatural thing to ask forgiveness of your child. That reminds me of a funny thing. When my kids were in elementary school, maybe, yeah, I think elementary school. So they were being interviewed about our parents. What did they learn about us as their parents? And what did you learn from your mom and from your dad? And my younger daughter said, well, from my mom, I learned how to ask forgiveness.

37:54 And so you think, oh, because you learned to say ask forgiveness yourself. She says, no, no, I learned from my mom asking forgiveness for the things she did. But those things, you're right, those will help solidify and strengthen our relationships with them so that, again, when things get older, when they have this need to separate more and have different opinions, they're going to be ready to still have relationship. And I tell people a lot. I said, when your child has done something, you know, really bad or really hurtful to you or whatever, I said, one of the most important things you can do is maintain relationship with them because that will enable coming back, coming home to be possible. If it's severed, if it's really broken, it's very hard to overcome that.

39:01 So I just love what you have here. I love what I skim through your book. Now I need to sit down and read it in depth and make sure that I'm applying with my oh, yeah, the in-law kids. You have anything to say about them because they matter. They do matter. And they are really an important part of your life as well. And grafting them into your family is not an easy thing because they weren't raised the same way. But asking God to give you his heart for them is also very important.

39:41 Well, Mary, you have this book. It came out today. And I would love to encourage you to get on your favorite place to buy books and order it enough for yourself and maybe a friend of yours who's also going through this. But we're also going to give away two of your books. And so listeners, if you would like to win one of Mary's books, this wonderful book of Love, Pray, Listen, so that you can have a joyful relationships with your adult children. What a hopeful thing to have a joyful relationship with them.

40:22 If you want to be eligible to win in the show notes, there will be a link for you to go to to say, put me on the list for the drawing. So we'll be glad to do that. I know people have been blessed and helped by this. And this is just little little smidgens of the wisdom that you have in this book. And besides the wisdom, Mary's also a good writer. And so it's easy to read. It's good to read. There are some things that aren't always they may have wisdom, but they're not fun to read. So I'm just so grateful that you're my friend.

41:04 And I'm so grateful for your taking the challenges in your life. Mary, let me pray for you. Thank you. I pray for my friend, Lord, that you would just bless her, that you would bless her with many, many people's lives being helped and touched and encouraged because of this book. I pray that her care for her own children and for the empathy and compassion she had on friends who were walking through really hard times with their adult children. She just didn't say, I'll pray for you.

41:45 But she prayed and she listened and she loved them, just like with our children. But she also wrote a book to help. And so I pray that this book will go far and that many will be encouraged and helped. And I pray you'll give Mary strength and stamina as she does once again, seeking to let the book have a life out in the public. So bless her. Thank you, Lord, in Jesus' name. Amen. So I do actually have a gift for your listeners if you're interested. Oh, great.

42:25 So if they go to marydemuth.com slash LPL, which stands for Love, Pray, Listen, there are a year's worth of prayers for your prodigal. And they have a fill in the blank. You can put their name in it every week. So 52 prayers for the year. And that's free. So marydemuth.com slash LPL. Okay. And we'll put that also in the show notes so that they can see it. I think I'll go there. Those prayers could be useful. Mary is a very strong prayer. So thanks so much. God bless you, your book, and to my listeners.

43:07 I just hope that you'll take at least one, probably several really tangible things that you can do to help you on a journey that you're already in or to maybe prevent you having to be on this journey because you apply the love and pray and listen so well before they've become adults. Next week, next is episode, we will be doing a very short series, kind of on two topics. The first one is on setting captives free or breaking bondages, because a lot of prodigals have been really attacked by the evil one and there's there definitely bondages of various kinds and some things you can do to help set them free.

43:58 And then surrendering our idols, because a lot of times our children become idols to us, and our own health is dependent on their being who we think they should be. And I'm going to talk about my story on that, and how my product will became an idol to me, and how God helped me take him off the throne of my life. So, I hope that you'll be back and Mary have a great rest of your launch day. Thank you so much.