Pam Lanhart - 2nd Interview, episode 58

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Welcome, welcome back to When You Love a Prodigal podcast.

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If you love a prodigal, you can discover help and hope

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for your wilderness journey right here

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at When You Love a Prodigal, and also help and hope

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for your own life journey.

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Speaking of hope, I hope that your heart was encouraged

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by the series we did on hope,

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that it actually lifted you some and gave you hope

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that all is not lost, there will be good things

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that can happen.

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And today, I am confident you will find both help

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and hope for yourself, your family, and your prodigal,

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especially if he or she struggles with addiction.

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Today, I am chatting again with Pam Lannhart.

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Pam says, I'm just a mom who's become a warrior.

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Growing up with family addictions, she was determined

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that that would not come into her family,

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but it came anyway.

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Pam's long journey and battle for her son's freedom

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has benefited many families through her book,

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Praying Our Loved One Home, and a ministry,

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Thrive, Family Recovery Resources.

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So as Pam and I chat, and you listen in,

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be sure to jot down any action points

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that you should seek to do as Pam shares with us.

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She's gonna have a number of things

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that she's offering with her ministry,

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and so don't miss it, don't think you'll remember,

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be sure and jot it down.

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When Pam was with us two months ago,

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she was kind and so vulnerable to tell us

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about her long journey with her son, Jake's addiction,

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his getting clean and making good plans for his life,

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and then one slip while helping an overdose friend.

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That one slip took his life,

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and if you haven't listened to her story,

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check out episode 49 on When You Love a Prodigal.

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Today Pam will update us on her journey of grief,

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and also acquaint us with the wonderful resources

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she has developed through what she learned and experienced

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through Jake's battle with addiction.

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So welcome back, Pam.

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We are grateful to hear how you are doing

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and what has happened because of Jake's story,

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and then we want to know about your resources

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that could benefit our listeners.

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Well, thank you for inviting me back.

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I always feel like, you know, I get invited once

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and that's a good thing, and if I get invited back,

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that's a better thing.

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That usually means I didn't do so bad the first time around.

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Oh, you did great the first time,

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and I know you will this time as well.

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But first, why don't you just kind of tell us,

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bring us a little up to date on what's been going on.

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First with you and your heart,

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but also what's happened with Jake's friends.

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Yeah, you know, we are now not quite six months

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into the grief journey.

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And it's, the way I would describe it,

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and this I think is the same,

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whether you have lost someone or, you know,

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you just discovered, or you're just starting

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to have these problems with your child

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or your loved one and your life isn't really playing out

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the way that you think it should,

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or the way the story in your head would go, there's grief.

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And we had a therapist describe it initially

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as there's 10 foot waves

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and they're coming one after another,

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and you can't feel like, you feel like you can't breathe.

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And then, you know, the waves come a little bit

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farther apart, but they're still all consuming

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and they fall, you know, on you

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and you just get sucked under.

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And then eventually they're a little smaller,

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they're eight foot waves.

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And then they start coming farther apart

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and then there's six foot waves

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and they're even farther apart.

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And pretty soon you can manage the waves

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and you can breathe it through the waves.

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And I would say we're in that, you know,

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six foot wave phase where the waves still come every day.

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And you know, the thing about grief is it's not,

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and there is a season, the Bible says there's a season

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for everything and there's a time to mourn.

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And yet when you lose a child,

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that I don't think you ever,

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I never win a day without thinking about my son.

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I can't imagine I'll ever go a day

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without thinking about him.

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Even in this loss.

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Yeah, so, you know, last night I was listening to a song

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and it brought tears and I had to get the clinics out.

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And every day there's something that chokes me up,

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it makes my heart hurt, makes me cry.

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But there's, I think something that someone said

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or you've probably heard it,

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I don't think it's an original quote,

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but you know, the greater the grief,

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the greater the love was.

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And the beauty of our journey, I think,

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is that, you know, I wouldn't be able to definitively say

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that Jake as a prodigal had come home

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in the sense that, you know,

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he'd embraced a Christian faith

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and he had started living that out.

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That wasn't the story.

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But the story was that we radically loved him

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and we repaired our relationship with him

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even as someone would define him as a prodigal.

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So even in his journey through his discovery

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of who God was and his discovery of spirituality

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didn't necessarily match ours,

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but that relationship was intact and it was beautiful

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and there had been so much healing

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that we really have the benefit of knowing,

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as I talked about last time,

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that we had loved him well.

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We really had.

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That's such a blessing to know that you loved him well.

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And that helps at least lift any sense of guilt

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because so many people who love a prodigal

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and they lose them have a lot of guilt.

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They think, what could I have done differently?

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And what a blessing that you can know that.

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And, you know, honestly, there's always that.

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Even when you have loved well,

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there's always those images of guilt

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and like, could I have done something different

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when we have had a different outcome

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if we would have done this or that?

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I mean, I think that that's normal and natural.

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And I do love the idea of grace and self-compassion

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that we're not gonna go through life perfectly.

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There's no guidebook really for how to do this thing,

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especially when addiction is in the family

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and it isn't a linear journey.

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It is definitely a crooked path.

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And it's not a perfect path

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and we can never be perfect people.

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We have a perfect God.

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And we're coming up on Easter

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and we have the benefit of Sunday.

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In fact, I'm doing a retreat this weekend

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and my talk is about stepping into a new day.

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So you might be sitting in Friday today

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and Friday might be the wondering, the grief,

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the questioning, like, where is God in all of this?

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You know, you said my son was gonna do great things.

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Mary sat in Friday and said,

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you told me my son was gonna be a king

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and rule over all of the nations.

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And I'm sitting in Friday and Saturday

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and I don't see that coming to fruition, right?

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But he didn't know Sunday was coming.

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Praise God.

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And we know Sunday came.

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We have the benefit of Sunday.

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So grateful for that, definitely.

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So I read something that you wrote

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about your son's friends and an event in Colorado.

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Can you tell us about that?

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Well, you know, after Jake passed,

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we really got together and wanted to celebrate his life.

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And I think the most significant part about that was the,

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I might have a little hard time talking about this.

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But the person that Jake saved

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wanted to come to that event.

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And, you know, as a friend,

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and if you are a friend of, you know,

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someone who struggled, you feel guilt and you feel shame.

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And this young man, I'll call Dee,

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wanted to come and his sister brought him.

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And he was not well,

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even though my son had saved his life on that Friday night.

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This was the following Thursday

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and he had been in and out of a couple of detoxes already.

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And he left.

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And when he showed up, he was not well.

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And what happened in that moment

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was that in spite of the feelings

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that we might've had about what happened that day,

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we walked right up to him and he was hanging his head down

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and he was feeling a lot of shame and a lot of regret.

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And I hugged him and I held him and I said,

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you don't look down, you do not look down.

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You look up.

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You look up.

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And you find strength,

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because you are loved.

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And you find strength.

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That's beautiful.

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And you know, I think that throughout this journey,

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we have really tried to respond

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the way we imagine Jesus would have.

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Yeah.

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You know, Jake had a lot of friends that had no faith,

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even exposed to Jesus.

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This particular young man grew up in a Jewish home.

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And what I try to imagine as I walk through this

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and as we were walking through our journey with Jake is,

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how would Jesus have responded?

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What would he have done

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if someone would have walked up to him

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who was a friend of Lazarus and Lazarus has died?

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You know, what would Jesus have done?

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I mean, we see a little bit, Jesus wept, he was sad.

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And I think he would have comforted the lost.

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He would have comforted those people that

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that we're struggling and we're questioning

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and we're wondering.

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And I do believe Jesus would have embraced them.

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I think that's true.

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Jesus showed compassion all the time.

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Absolutely.

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And the beauty of this journey

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and looking at it in hindsight and even moving forward

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is I don't think we really truly knew

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what compassion was until we walked through this with Jake.

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And you know, it's a big word

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and there are a lot of things that are thrown out

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about compassion in the world today.

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And thankfully we're having conversations about it

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through some of the works of people like Brene Brown.

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But it's one thing to say it

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and it's another thing to practice it.

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And it takes intention.

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And trying to seek the Lord, I think every morning

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and ask him, you know, how do I wanna be?

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How do you want me to be?

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What is my intention for this day,

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for the people in front of me and for my light?

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And we had the opportunity that day

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to really respond to this friend, Brene Brown.

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And to this friend with compassion.

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I mean, he felt guilty.

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He still struggles.

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Of course he did.

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But yeah, compassion and mercy.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I mean, he does struggles still with horrible guilt

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and wondering if there was something

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he could have done different.

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And you know, the truth is this journey on earth is riddled

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with, you know, those kinds of regrets.

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Could I have done something different?

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Should I have done something different?

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So many what ifs.

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And we don't have answers for them.

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Only God knows.

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But what if is what has happened.

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We have to deal with and live with.

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Yeah.

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You know, God is just so gracious and good.

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Yes.

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This is what Christ did on the cross, right?

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That he took all of that, all the shame, all the guilt,

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all the what ifs.

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And he says, you know,

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I'm gonna take that burden for you, right?

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I'm gonna carry that so you don't have to.

265
00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:19,520
So other friends of Jake's were involved in honoring him?

266
00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:20,360
Yeah.

267
00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:22,680
And you know, it was a hard time.

268
00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:26,680
He had been out there in a community, in a sober living.

269
00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:31,680
And you know, there definitely were people

270
00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,040
that were struggling.

271
00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:38,200
And you know, it was really a beautiful,

272
00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:42,960
we had it in an environment that was right below

273
00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:44,560
the Flatirons in Boulder.

274
00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:47,000
And you know, he had climbed a lot of mountains

275
00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:48,000
with those kids.

276
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,360
And he had spent a lot of time with those kids.

277
00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:51,200
I call them kids.

278
00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:55,920
They were, you know, in their 20s and kind of early 30s.

279
00:16:55,920 --> 00:17:01,040
And it really was just a really, really sweet time

280
00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:04,280
of just coming together and ministering.

281
00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:07,280
And I think this is another lesson from that,

282
00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,280
is that even in our deepest pain,

283
00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:12,280
we can minister to others.

284
00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:13,440
Yeah.

285
00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:18,440
In fact, sometimes more powerfully in our deepest pain.

286
00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:20,520
Yeah.

287
00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:25,280
And one of our greatest ministries has been to Jake's love.

288
00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:29,400
He had a sweet young gal named Maddie

289
00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:33,440
that was a part of his life for two and a half years out there.

290
00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:38,440
And since Jake passed, we've just embraced Maddie.

291
00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:42,080
Like she was part of our family.

292
00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:44,480
Like she would have been our daughter-in-law.

293
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:46,960
She's come and stayed with us.

294
00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:51,360
We've been able to really minister to her.

295
00:17:51,360 --> 00:17:55,200
And you know, this is the thing that's so sweet

296
00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:58,080
about these friendships that our kids have,

297
00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:01,880
is that it brings insight into our lives

298
00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:04,640
about who they were apart from being our children.

299
00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:07,560
You know, we tend to only see like this...

300
00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:08,400
True.

301
00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:10,440
...of our kids, right?

302
00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:12,160
They're always our babies.

303
00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:15,120
And then we're always evaluating, you know, their lives.

304
00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:17,720
And, you know, we're sort of that.

305
00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:20,640
We're the, you know, we're the parent, right?

306
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:22,000
We have that parent role.

307
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:26,720
So sometimes our interactions with them,

308
00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:31,200
our, you know, mothering them or fathering them.

309
00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,760
And the beauty of that gathering

310
00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:36,960
was that there were many people that stepped up and shared,

311
00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:39,640
and they shared things that we didn't even know about Jake.

312
00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:43,400
And we got to really see this part of Jake,

313
00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:45,680
especially in his sobriety.

314
00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:48,280
He hadn't lived with us for so long

315
00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:52,240
that we hadn't seen that part of him.

316
00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:55,160
And you know, and this is something I think

317
00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:58,280
God's putting on my heart to share right now,

318
00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:04,600
is that when you lose a prodigal,

319
00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:09,000
there's these questions about whether or not

320
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,000
they're in heaven.

321
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:14,000
You know, did my person know God?

322
00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:21,960
And was his heart a heart of God?

323
00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:25,360
And especially when there's been maybe

324
00:19:25,360 --> 00:19:28,720
some long-term substance use and their behaviors

325
00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:33,720
are sometimes harmful towards you, you know?

326
00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:36,360
Oh, definitely.

327
00:19:36,360 --> 00:19:41,040
But what was so cool is that that gathering

328
00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:43,240
of his friends and that time afterwards,

329
00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:48,240
and this time with Maddie really has shown us the fruit

330
00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:52,320
of the faith that he grew up in.

331
00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,680
You know, train up a child in the ways of the Lord,

332
00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:57,560
and when he's older, he won't depart from them.

333
00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:00,320
And one day I was sitting in church,

334
00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:02,040
not long after he died,

335
00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:04,240
it was the first time we had gone back to church,

336
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:07,360
and the message was, do you know for sure?

337
00:20:07,360 --> 00:20:10,280
And they talked about that Bible verse,

338
00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:12,960
you know, faith without works is dead.

339
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:14,760
Faith without works is dead.

340
00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:18,360
And you know, it got me wondering about Jake,

341
00:20:18,360 --> 00:20:23,080
and this was such a Jesus moment, such a God moment.

342
00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:25,880
I came back home and I picked up his big book.

343
00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:30,520
And that's the AA book, the big blue book of AA.

344
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:32,120
And I loved to look through it

345
00:20:32,120 --> 00:20:34,560
because he would have notes written in it,

346
00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:37,080
or he would have certain things underlying.

347
00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:40,680
And that day the Lord led me to that book,

348
00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:43,720
and three different times in that book,

349
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:48,720
it was highlighted by him, faith without works is dead.

350
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:55,360
Those exact words that I had heard in the message that day,

351
00:20:55,360 --> 00:21:00,360
and it was God's way of telling me that,

352
00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:03,400
yes, Jake did have faith,

353
00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,640
and that was manifested in the relationships

354
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:11,400
that he had fostered with his friends and with Maddie.

355
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,000
And we get to hear all these little stories

356
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,440
that Maddie tells us about his kindness

357
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:20,520
and his compassion and his love.

358
00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:25,520
And sometimes that was lost in the addiction

359
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,880
and that was lost in the pain,

360
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:33,000
but it was never lost, it was always in him.

361
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:34,600
We didn't necessarily see it,

362
00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:37,520
but the beauty of those friendships,

363
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,120
and sometimes it's really hard

364
00:21:40,120 --> 00:21:42,840
when we have these preconceived ideas

365
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:45,280
of who those people are, right?

366
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:47,560
He had a lot of friends who were in active use

367
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:52,560
or in recovery, and yet through our experiences

368
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:54,080
working with the homeless

369
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,560
and really trying to embrace

370
00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:59,920
some of those friends that Jake had,

371
00:21:59,920 --> 00:22:03,520
we can just see that those are the most beautiful human beings

372
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:05,680
with the most giving hearts

373
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:09,880
that would give you the shirt off their back,

374
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:12,960
or the last half of their sandwich,

375
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:16,120
and how kind and generous they really were.

376
00:22:16,120 --> 00:22:21,120
And we saw that manifested in those days

377
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:26,520
right after Jake died at that service in Colorado,

378
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:31,520
and here in Minneapolis, I think that honestly,

379
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,240
we had probably judged some of his friends

380
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:36,040
a little bit too harshly.

381
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,760
And the truth is they're just human beings

382
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:43,600
that God created and the same as we are.

383
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:46,640
Yeah, and they have this struggle,

384
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,000
and we have another struggle,

385
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:52,760
and that's such a gift, such a gift.

386
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,680
And another gift is that you have taken

387
00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:02,600
before Jake's death, but continuing the hard things,

388
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:06,740
and you've turned it into gifts to other people.

389
00:23:06,740 --> 00:23:11,180
Can you kind of give us a little sense of the journey

390
00:23:11,180 --> 00:23:16,180
as you began to work through what you were going through

391
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:18,540
to help other people,

392
00:23:18,540 --> 00:23:22,320
and how your ministry evolved from that?

393
00:23:23,420 --> 00:23:28,420
Yeah, and we have done the work of our ministry

394
00:23:30,100 --> 00:23:31,940
for six years now.

395
00:23:31,940 --> 00:23:36,940
And one of the things I think I mentioned last time

396
00:23:37,940 --> 00:23:39,740
was the what ifs.

397
00:23:39,740 --> 00:23:42,120
If Jake didn't make it,

398
00:23:42,120 --> 00:23:46,660
what would those last days have looked like?

399
00:23:46,660 --> 00:23:49,820
What would those last text messages have been?

400
00:23:49,820 --> 00:23:54,820
And we look back at that, and we are so confident

401
00:23:54,860 --> 00:23:57,620
that we really did love him well.

402
00:23:57,620 --> 00:24:01,820
And our ministry was really born out of that idea

403
00:24:01,820 --> 00:24:06,820
of how can we really interact with our son

404
00:24:07,740 --> 00:24:10,660
in a way that honored God?

405
00:24:10,660 --> 00:24:14,940
And then out of that, really helping families.

406
00:24:14,940 --> 00:24:18,940
There's so many families that have been told

407
00:24:19,820 --> 00:24:21,260
to walk through this in a way

408
00:24:21,260 --> 00:24:23,780
that didn't align with their values,

409
00:24:23,780 --> 00:24:26,540
that they were supposed to cut someone off,

410
00:24:26,540 --> 00:24:30,500
or disconnect, or let go.

411
00:24:30,500 --> 00:24:34,220
And whether those messages,

412
00:24:34,220 --> 00:24:37,900
a lot of times they're distorted by human beings, right?

413
00:24:37,900 --> 00:24:40,380
So everybody's trying to do the best they can,

414
00:24:40,380 --> 00:24:41,900
and there's no judgment on that.

415
00:24:41,900 --> 00:24:45,300
But people were drawn to me, my writings.

416
00:24:46,580 --> 00:24:49,420
It all started with my Facebook page,

417
00:24:49,420 --> 00:24:51,740
and writing my prayers,

418
00:24:51,740 --> 00:24:53,580
which there's a page on Facebook

419
00:24:53,580 --> 00:24:55,660
called Praying Our Love When Home,

420
00:24:55,660 --> 00:24:57,900
and I post my prayers every day.

421
00:24:57,900 --> 00:24:59,700
And my ministry was born out of that.

422
00:24:59,700 --> 00:25:04,100
And wanting to help families

423
00:25:04,100 --> 00:25:06,460
move through this journey with love.

424
00:25:07,500 --> 00:25:12,180
And most people came to me because they felt like

425
00:25:12,180 --> 00:25:15,780
there was a disconnect between how they wanted to be,

426
00:25:15,780 --> 00:25:18,700
the fruits of the spirit, and how they were.

427
00:25:18,700 --> 00:25:21,420
So I want to be patient, kind, loving,

428
00:25:21,420 --> 00:25:23,020
caring, compassionate.

429
00:25:23,020 --> 00:25:26,620
And right now I'm anxious, fearful,

430
00:25:26,620 --> 00:25:28,860
angry, frustrated, mean.

431
00:25:28,860 --> 00:25:30,940
All of those, yes.

432
00:25:30,940 --> 00:25:33,460
And there was a disconnect.

433
00:25:33,460 --> 00:25:36,620
And what I found in my own life

434
00:25:36,620 --> 00:25:40,500
was that nobody ever really showed me how to be that way.

435
00:25:40,500 --> 00:25:45,180
And so our ministry offers actionable solutions.

436
00:25:45,180 --> 00:25:47,260
So when we have our groups,

437
00:25:47,260 --> 00:25:49,060
we have support groups that meet every week.

438
00:25:49,060 --> 00:25:51,500
We have seven of them that meet,

439
00:25:51,500 --> 00:25:55,780
and sometimes there's as many as 35 or 40 people in the group.

440
00:25:55,780 --> 00:25:58,260
We use breakout rooms on Zoom.

441
00:25:58,260 --> 00:26:00,460
It's always actionable solutions.

442
00:26:00,460 --> 00:26:03,220
So it's how do we communicate more effectively

443
00:26:03,220 --> 00:26:06,660
so that it does come off in a loving way?

444
00:26:06,660 --> 00:26:11,660
How do we become emotionally healthy in our own lives,

445
00:26:12,020 --> 00:26:16,500
taking care of ourselves and activating our own wellbeing?

446
00:26:16,500 --> 00:26:21,500
Or the word recovery means a return to health and wellbeing,

447
00:26:23,660 --> 00:26:26,500
a return to what was lost, right?

448
00:26:26,500 --> 00:26:30,780
So if I have surgery and I've lost my strength,

449
00:26:30,780 --> 00:26:34,060
I return to recovery by doing physical therapy,

450
00:26:34,060 --> 00:26:37,180
by practicing, by building strength, right?

451
00:26:37,180 --> 00:26:40,180
So when we think in terms of substance use

452
00:26:40,180 --> 00:26:44,740
or how the family is impacted in that,

453
00:26:44,740 --> 00:26:46,580
we talk about recovery for an individual,

454
00:26:46,580 --> 00:26:49,700
but I talk about recovery for the family,

455
00:26:49,700 --> 00:26:54,700
which is how do we return to that place

456
00:26:54,700 --> 00:26:59,700
that we once were, or that person that we once were?

457
00:27:00,100 --> 00:27:01,500
Or maybe you never were that way

458
00:27:01,500 --> 00:27:04,020
because maybe you did grow up in a family

459
00:27:04,020 --> 00:27:05,020
that wasn't very healthy

460
00:27:05,020 --> 00:27:09,100
and you never could figure it out, right?

461
00:27:09,100 --> 00:27:13,340
And so what we like to do is equip families

462
00:27:13,340 --> 00:27:18,340
with tools and skills, how to-

463
00:27:19,260 --> 00:27:22,900
Can you give some examples of what you do then?

464
00:27:22,900 --> 00:27:24,500
Tools or skills?

465
00:27:26,340 --> 00:27:30,060
Okay, so this just came up today,

466
00:27:30,060 --> 00:27:35,060
which was a gal that I'm really good friends with

467
00:27:35,700 --> 00:27:39,460
and she has a girlfriend who's using alcohol

468
00:27:39,460 --> 00:27:43,620
pretty problematically and probably will die

469
00:27:43,620 --> 00:27:45,420
from her alcohol use.

470
00:27:45,420 --> 00:27:48,500
And she has lost her job,

471
00:27:48,500 --> 00:27:53,060
she's done treatment three or four times, she's 60,

472
00:27:53,060 --> 00:27:56,020
she probably doesn't have a long time to live

473
00:27:56,020 --> 00:27:57,420
because of her alcohol use.

474
00:27:57,420 --> 00:28:00,220
So we were processing this visit

475
00:28:00,220 --> 00:28:01,980
that was gonna be coming up.

476
00:28:01,980 --> 00:28:06,980
And my recommendation from a kind of a coaching standpoint

477
00:28:07,220 --> 00:28:12,220
was don't tiptoe around it, right?

478
00:28:12,260 --> 00:28:16,020
Bring it up and just say, hey, I love you,

479
00:28:16,020 --> 00:28:18,540
I know you're not well right now,

480
00:28:18,540 --> 00:28:20,340
I know you're coming to visit

481
00:28:20,340 --> 00:28:24,580
and I really wanna know how you want us to be.

482
00:28:25,620 --> 00:28:28,860
What do you need when you come?

483
00:28:31,420 --> 00:28:34,060
That would be revolutionary.

484
00:28:34,060 --> 00:28:39,060
Yeah, like thinking about that person and their suffering

485
00:28:40,940 --> 00:28:45,940
and the fact that any moment they could die

486
00:28:45,940 --> 00:28:50,940
because we all can, we never know the number of your days.

487
00:28:53,060 --> 00:28:56,900
So we use some skills I call more superpowers,

488
00:28:56,900 --> 00:29:00,700
which are things like validating our loved one.

489
00:29:01,540 --> 00:29:02,620
Beautiful, yes.

490
00:29:02,620 --> 00:29:07,620
And validating doesn't mean we agree with their decisions.

491
00:29:09,540 --> 00:29:13,060
But validating means I hear you're frustrated,

492
00:29:13,060 --> 00:29:17,100
I understand you're angry and I'm sorry

493
00:29:17,100 --> 00:29:19,060
that you're struggling.

494
00:29:19,060 --> 00:29:24,060
Or it might be little things like,

495
00:29:25,180 --> 00:29:27,660
yeah, that does sound really hard.

496
00:29:28,860 --> 00:29:32,540
I used to be an invalidator, what are the examples?

497
00:29:32,540 --> 00:29:34,820
My daughter comes downstairs and she's like,

498
00:29:34,820 --> 00:29:37,460
oh, I'm so tired.

499
00:29:37,460 --> 00:29:39,700
And I would be like, how could you be tired?

500
00:29:39,700 --> 00:29:42,460
You just slept for three hours, right?

501
00:29:42,460 --> 00:29:44,980
You just took a nap in the middle of the day.

502
00:29:44,980 --> 00:29:47,620
That's invalidating that person.

503
00:29:47,620 --> 00:29:52,620
And instead we can say, wow, you must really be exhausted.

504
00:29:58,900 --> 00:30:02,340
Those are simple things that we can learn to do.

505
00:30:02,340 --> 00:30:05,380
Right, and that's the thing is I didn't need complicated,

506
00:30:05,380 --> 00:30:08,860
I needed simple, affirming our loved ones,

507
00:30:08,860 --> 00:30:10,340
speaking life over them.

508
00:30:10,340 --> 00:30:14,820
Like, you know, I am so confident

509
00:30:14,820 --> 00:30:17,860
because of your determination and diligence

510
00:30:17,860 --> 00:30:21,420
that you will be able to find this pathway.

511
00:30:21,420 --> 00:30:26,420
Or I know that you are a strong person

512
00:30:26,500 --> 00:30:30,180
and you're independent and I really believe

513
00:30:31,740 --> 00:30:34,940
that you'll be able to figure this out.

514
00:30:34,940 --> 00:30:39,940
Or I really do think that you have the ability

515
00:30:41,220 --> 00:30:43,780
to take this next step, right?

516
00:30:43,780 --> 00:30:48,460
Oftentimes we sort of get into this idea

517
00:30:48,460 --> 00:30:52,540
of like what I call toxic positivity,

518
00:30:52,540 --> 00:30:56,500
which is I know you can do anything you set your mind to.

519
00:30:56,500 --> 00:30:59,540
And it sort of inadvertently sends this message of,

520
00:30:59,540 --> 00:31:03,100
you're not living up to what we expect.

521
00:31:03,100 --> 00:31:07,660
And so taking that idea of being positive

522
00:31:07,660 --> 00:31:08,860
or affirming your loved one,

523
00:31:08,860 --> 00:31:11,220
but making it small and specific.

524
00:31:11,220 --> 00:31:14,260
Like, it must feel really good

525
00:31:14,260 --> 00:31:17,780
that you filled out that job application today.

526
00:31:17,780 --> 00:31:20,140
You must be really proud of yourself

527
00:31:20,140 --> 00:31:22,740
that you went to that interview.

528
00:31:22,740 --> 00:31:26,260
I see you doing this work.

529
00:31:27,700 --> 00:31:31,060
And the truth is it doesn't matter

530
00:31:31,060 --> 00:31:35,020
whether it's what we want or not,

531
00:31:35,020 --> 00:31:38,900
because their pathway isn't our pathway.

532
00:31:38,900 --> 00:31:43,900
And their pathway is under God's control, not ours.

533
00:31:45,500 --> 00:31:49,700
That's really hard for parents to recognize.

534
00:31:49,700 --> 00:31:54,220
They have a vision for what this kid should become

535
00:31:54,220 --> 00:31:55,740
or could become.

536
00:31:55,740 --> 00:31:58,460
And yeah, to recognize, you know,

537
00:31:58,460 --> 00:32:01,980
God might have an entirely different plan.

538
00:32:03,020 --> 00:32:05,220
And so that's beautiful.

539
00:32:06,220 --> 00:32:11,220
You know, the God's word says that his plan is a good plan.

540
00:32:12,220 --> 00:32:13,580
It's a good plan.

541
00:32:13,580 --> 00:32:15,620
And I'm not gonna lie.

542
00:32:15,620 --> 00:32:19,660
Like this has been part of the grief journey is,

543
00:32:19,660 --> 00:32:22,300
you know, what does that mean for me?

544
00:32:22,300 --> 00:32:23,580
It doesn't look good to me.

545
00:32:23,580 --> 00:32:27,780
Yeah, now in the context of this loss.

546
00:32:27,780 --> 00:32:28,620
Yeah.

547
00:32:29,460 --> 00:32:33,580
I sit on my chair and I write and I ask God that.

548
00:32:33,580 --> 00:32:37,340
Like this does not feel good right now.

549
00:32:37,340 --> 00:32:40,460
Well, and to divert here just a little,

550
00:32:40,460 --> 00:32:42,780
I think that's very important.

551
00:32:42,780 --> 00:32:46,700
We are afraid to ask the questions of our fears,

552
00:32:46,700 --> 00:32:49,100
our doubts, our anger of God,

553
00:32:49,100 --> 00:32:50,980
that we don't feel like we can.

554
00:32:50,980 --> 00:32:55,980
And I think he invites us to ask the hard questions,

555
00:32:55,980 --> 00:32:58,660
to tell the truth about what we're feeling.

556
00:32:59,820 --> 00:33:03,180
And this is the discovery that I've made,

557
00:33:05,180 --> 00:33:09,100
is that there are questions that we will ask

558
00:33:09,100 --> 00:33:13,380
that will never be answered this side of heaven.

559
00:33:13,380 --> 00:33:15,540
Right, true.

560
00:33:15,540 --> 00:33:19,900
I will never know why

561
00:33:21,540 --> 00:33:22,980
Jake's life ended

562
00:33:22,980 --> 00:33:27,980
at 24 on the 23rd of October, 2021.

563
00:33:32,700 --> 00:33:34,140
I will never have that answer.

564
00:33:34,140 --> 00:33:36,380
I don't know that.

565
00:33:36,380 --> 00:33:38,460
I can't tell you.

566
00:33:39,420 --> 00:33:43,980
And I know I never will get that answer, you know?

567
00:33:43,980 --> 00:33:46,620
Sometimes we have the benefit of looking back

568
00:33:46,620 --> 00:33:48,580
and being able to see.

569
00:33:48,580 --> 00:33:51,020
Something that God has used things for.

570
00:33:51,020 --> 00:33:52,620
The pathway, right?

571
00:33:52,620 --> 00:33:54,500
Of the why.

572
00:33:55,820 --> 00:33:57,980
Just kind of a quick little story.

573
00:33:57,980 --> 00:34:00,140
My husband is a,

574
00:34:00,140 --> 00:34:03,860
he spent the first year of our marriage in jail,

575
00:34:03,860 --> 00:34:05,540
and he was a convicted felon.

576
00:34:05,540 --> 00:34:10,540
Long story, but we see how God wove that

577
00:34:10,900 --> 00:34:15,700
into us moving, living in a certain place,

578
00:34:15,700 --> 00:34:17,980
getting a marketing brochure,

579
00:34:17,980 --> 00:34:20,820
and going to the church that we go to,

580
00:34:20,820 --> 00:34:24,540
and living that out,

581
00:34:24,540 --> 00:34:28,100
and how it brought us to our faith.

582
00:34:28,100 --> 00:34:30,140
And now my husband works for that church,

583
00:34:30,140 --> 00:34:32,340
and it doesn't matter that he had this felony,

584
00:34:32,340 --> 00:34:34,060
he's been pardoned.

585
00:34:34,060 --> 00:34:35,500
But actually, no, it's kind of fun,

586
00:34:35,500 --> 00:34:38,380
because when we do ministry with the homeless,

587
00:34:38,380 --> 00:34:40,420
he can be like, hey, yeah, I know how it is.

588
00:34:40,420 --> 00:34:44,260
I spent some time, I did time.

589
00:34:44,260 --> 00:34:46,300
I did time, yes.

590
00:34:46,300 --> 00:34:48,460
So sometimes we have the benefit of looking back,

591
00:34:48,460 --> 00:34:50,020
and we can see that trajectory,

592
00:34:50,020 --> 00:34:52,780
and sometimes God even gives us that benefit

593
00:34:52,780 --> 00:34:54,700
with our prodigal,

594
00:34:54,700 --> 00:34:58,060
because things sort of work out well,

595
00:34:58,060 --> 00:35:00,860
and everything gets wrapped up in this tidy little bowl.

596
00:35:00,860 --> 00:35:05,180
But that's not the way my life is gone,

597
00:35:05,180 --> 00:35:08,820
and it's not ever gonna be that way now with Jake.

598
00:35:08,820 --> 00:35:11,140
I mean, in my imagination,

599
00:35:11,140 --> 00:35:14,780
I thought Jake would somehow end up,

600
00:35:14,780 --> 00:35:18,420
and in fact, the day that he relapsed,

601
00:35:18,420 --> 00:35:20,820
so he died on a Friday night,

602
00:35:20,820 --> 00:35:22,980
he relapsed on Thursday,

603
00:35:22,980 --> 00:35:24,620
and I knew about it that evening.

604
00:35:24,620 --> 00:35:28,420
And my response was, okay, God, what are you up to here?

605
00:35:28,420 --> 00:35:31,540
Hmm, I guess he had one more use in him,

606
00:35:31,540 --> 00:35:34,140
and now maybe he'll get to that place

607
00:35:34,140 --> 00:35:37,580
where he has a spiritual experience,

608
00:35:37,580 --> 00:35:40,320
and he becomes sold out for Jesus.

609
00:35:41,620 --> 00:35:46,140
And 24 hours later, he was not alive.

610
00:35:46,140 --> 00:35:51,020
And so, you know, we have these ideas and imaginations

611
00:35:51,020 --> 00:35:53,780
for our loved ones, for our kids,

612
00:35:53,780 --> 00:35:57,420
and sometimes it doesn't work out that way.

613
00:35:57,420 --> 00:36:02,420
And I think faith is knowing that God is good.

614
00:36:04,940 --> 00:36:07,220
If we know the character of God,

615
00:36:08,740 --> 00:36:10,380
he's always good.

616
00:36:11,260 --> 00:36:13,060
He's always wonderful.

617
00:36:13,060 --> 00:36:13,900
He is.

618
00:36:13,900 --> 00:36:16,100
That's not God's plan for our life.

619
00:36:16,100 --> 00:36:21,060
That our life would be shortened, I don't believe.

620
00:36:21,060 --> 00:36:26,060
And it certainly is not God's plan for our life,

621
00:36:27,220 --> 00:36:29,400
that Jake would die at 24.

622
00:36:31,900 --> 00:36:33,440
And God gives us free will.

623
00:36:34,340 --> 00:36:35,780
He does.

624
00:36:35,780 --> 00:36:38,300
And he gives us free will to interact with our loved ones,

625
00:36:38,300 --> 00:36:43,300
kind of circling it back to how are we gonna show up?

626
00:36:43,300 --> 00:36:46,700
And this is the work that I do to help families

627
00:36:46,700 --> 00:36:50,140
is to really align their Christian values

628
00:36:50,140 --> 00:36:54,920
or their values with how they're acting in their behaviors.

629
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:56,940
And so many times the disconnect is just

630
00:36:56,940 --> 00:36:58,860
that they don't know what they don't know.

631
00:36:58,860 --> 00:37:00,300
I don't know the language.

632
00:37:00,300 --> 00:37:02,700
I don't know, you know, like how...

633
00:37:02,700 --> 00:37:04,100
So they need to be taught.

634
00:37:04,100 --> 00:37:04,940
Right, right.

635
00:37:04,940 --> 00:37:06,260
And coached.

636
00:37:06,260 --> 00:37:07,100
Yep.

637
00:37:07,100 --> 00:37:11,700
So if somebody, not in Minnesota,

638
00:37:11,700 --> 00:37:14,580
not in Minneapolis, is struggling

639
00:37:14,580 --> 00:37:16,860
and would love to connect,

640
00:37:16,860 --> 00:37:18,820
to be able to get the kind of help

641
00:37:18,820 --> 00:37:21,100
that you're talking about, what would they do?

642
00:37:21,100 --> 00:37:22,860
How would they do that?

643
00:37:22,860 --> 00:37:26,460
Well, the first thing is if they're on Facebook,

644
00:37:26,460 --> 00:37:28,500
we do have a large Facebook group.

645
00:37:28,500 --> 00:37:32,980
It's called Thrive Family Addiction Support.

646
00:37:32,980 --> 00:37:37,900
And it is informed by approaches that we have vetted

647
00:37:37,900 --> 00:37:41,060
that we feel aligned with how we do this.

648
00:37:41,060 --> 00:37:44,300
It's Crab Community Reinforcement and Family Training.

649
00:37:44,300 --> 00:37:47,340
So you can request to join on Facebook.

650
00:37:47,340 --> 00:37:52,020
It is a group that is founded in faith.

651
00:37:52,980 --> 00:37:57,580
So you can ask for prayers and you can talk about Jesus.

652
00:37:57,580 --> 00:38:00,580
And we have many people that don't have a faith

653
00:38:00,580 --> 00:38:03,540
that join that group because they love

654
00:38:03,540 --> 00:38:06,980
that it is so loving and so kind.

655
00:38:06,980 --> 00:38:11,980
And then we have a website, Thrive Family Recovery Resources.

656
00:38:12,180 --> 00:38:13,980
And we host workshops.

657
00:38:13,980 --> 00:38:16,340
For example, we have a workshop coming up

658
00:38:16,340 --> 00:38:20,060
at the end of April called Better Boundaries

659
00:38:20,060 --> 00:38:21,860
from Tough Love to Love You Well.

660
00:38:22,780 --> 00:38:26,460
So depending on when you play this,

661
00:38:26,460 --> 00:38:28,020
it may or may not have happened,

662
00:38:28,020 --> 00:38:30,700
but on our website we post our events

663
00:38:30,700 --> 00:38:32,100
that we have coming up.

664
00:38:32,100 --> 00:38:34,300
And everything we do is founded

665
00:38:34,300 --> 00:38:38,940
in this compassionate, loving, collaborative approach

666
00:38:38,940 --> 00:38:42,300
where, you know, and I think I mentioned this last time,

667
00:38:42,300 --> 00:38:45,420
we want to be loving, but I can assure you

668
00:38:45,420 --> 00:38:50,420
that often in that journey, I did not act loving.

669
00:38:50,700 --> 00:38:52,900
Love is not a feeling.

670
00:38:52,900 --> 00:38:54,180
Love is a verb.

671
00:38:54,180 --> 00:38:59,180
And what we try to do is help people walk love out,

672
00:38:59,420 --> 00:39:03,180
which really means things like kindness

673
00:39:03,180 --> 00:39:07,260
and the verbal words that you say

674
00:39:07,260 --> 00:39:11,260
and how you make someone be seen and heard

675
00:39:11,260 --> 00:39:13,940
and validated.

676
00:39:13,940 --> 00:39:17,580
And when someone is in that place of being a prodigal

677
00:39:17,580 --> 00:39:21,060
and they're filled with shame and guilt and, you know,

678
00:39:21,060 --> 00:39:23,620
regrets and they know that maybe they're not

679
00:39:23,620 --> 00:39:27,900
on the right path, we can take shame out of it

680
00:39:27,900 --> 00:39:31,140
and just be kind and honor that person.

681
00:39:31,140 --> 00:39:34,700
I call it unconditional positive regard.

682
00:39:34,700 --> 00:39:39,700
How can we practice unconditional positive regard

683
00:39:39,740 --> 00:39:40,900
for a family member?

684
00:39:40,900 --> 00:39:44,020
So joining our Facebook group, we have groups that meet,

685
00:39:44,020 --> 00:39:47,700
we have virtual support groups that meet,

686
00:39:47,700 --> 00:39:50,460
we have seven of them that meet every week,

687
00:39:50,460 --> 00:39:53,700
including a men's only group on Wednesdays,

688
00:39:53,700 --> 00:39:55,820
which is a beautiful group.

689
00:39:56,940 --> 00:39:59,420
And then we have other activities

690
00:39:59,420 --> 00:40:04,420
where we engage our families that sign up to our newsletter

691
00:40:06,260 --> 00:40:09,100
or are part of our group.

692
00:40:09,100 --> 00:40:12,540
So yeah, lots of ways to get involved.

693
00:40:12,540 --> 00:40:16,420
Okay, we will be putting in the show notes

694
00:40:16,420 --> 00:40:20,180
this information to tell you, our listeners,

695
00:40:20,180 --> 00:40:23,020
how they can get in touch or get connected

696
00:40:23,020 --> 00:40:24,420
to the Facebook page.

697
00:40:24,420 --> 00:40:27,060
Tell us just a little bit about your book

698
00:40:27,060 --> 00:40:29,300
and then I'm gonna pray for you.

699
00:40:29,300 --> 00:40:30,980
Okay, that would be lovely.

700
00:40:30,980 --> 00:40:34,620
So the book has been a really interesting part

701
00:40:34,620 --> 00:40:36,720
of the grief journey for me.

702
00:40:41,900 --> 00:40:46,900
It was written in the darkest days of our journey with Jake

703
00:40:47,220 --> 00:40:51,420
and I have a special little chair that I sit on every day

704
00:40:51,420 --> 00:40:54,460
and I was praying, I was going through scripture

705
00:40:54,460 --> 00:40:57,020
and looking at the scriptures

706
00:40:57,020 --> 00:41:00,500
and I just started praying over Jake.

707
00:41:00,500 --> 00:41:02,660
I would insert his name.

708
00:41:02,660 --> 00:41:07,660
And so this book is a daily devotional, 120 prayers

709
00:41:07,980 --> 00:41:12,980
that I wrote on this journey that I prayed over Jake.

710
00:41:15,860 --> 00:41:19,000
And what we did was we made it really easy

711
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:24,000
so that you can insert your person's name in the prayers.

712
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:26,400
So it says in parentheses, our loved one

713
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:27,720
in where it says our loved one,

714
00:41:27,720 --> 00:41:29,720
you just put your person's name in there.

715
00:41:29,720 --> 00:41:32,160
And so one of the things I found was,

716
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:34,720
like I didn't know what to pray for

717
00:41:34,720 --> 00:41:38,720
and sometimes I felt like I would pray my will for him.

718
00:41:38,720 --> 00:41:43,720
I would manipulate, I would wanna manipulate things.

719
00:41:43,720 --> 00:41:47,720
I would pray like, do this, but that was out of my desires

720
00:41:47,720 --> 00:41:51,240
and I knew that God's word was always true, always faithful.

721
00:41:51,240 --> 00:41:54,960
And that if I prayed God's word for my son

722
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:58,320
that that would always be the right prayer.

723
00:41:58,320 --> 00:41:59,160
You know?

724
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:00,000
I agree with that, yes.

725
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:03,120
It wasn't my will, it would be God's will.

726
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:06,760
And so every single prayer, there's a little devotional.

727
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:10,240
I write in a very sort of poetic way.

728
00:42:10,240 --> 00:42:13,640
And so there's a little piece of an introduction

729
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:14,960
to this prayer.

730
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:17,840
It's the scripture and then it's a prayer

731
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:19,600
that's actually written out.

732
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:23,920
It's actually written out so that when you feel

733
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:27,120
that you don't know what to pray or how to pray

734
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:32,120
for your loved one and you're in that place of dark, dark,

735
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:36,960
you know, the dark valley, you can pick up the book

736
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:39,440
and you can mark the pages that you love

737
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,400
and you can just pray that prayer over your person.

738
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:45,360
And so there's one, you know,

739
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:48,160
there's one every day for 120 days.

740
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:51,000
And I've had moms that have,

741
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,920
this is probably one of the greatest honors

742
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:57,920
that I feel God has given me is when a mom sends me

743
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,520
a message and says, my person called

744
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:04,040
and I didn't know what to do or how to respond.

745
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:07,800
So I just asked them if I could pray and I opened your book

746
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:11,840
and I prayed one of your prayers over them in that moment.

747
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:13,080
That's beautiful.

748
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:18,080
Yeah, so it's really just prayers for our loved one.

749
00:43:18,240 --> 00:43:21,120
I think that will be a great help to a lot of people.

750
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:24,040
I think I'll give away a couple of books

751
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:28,200
and listeners, you can check in the show notes

752
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:31,800
to find out what you have to do to be in the drawing

753
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:33,920
for one of Pam's books.

754
00:43:35,240 --> 00:43:39,920
So let me say thank you, but let me pray for you.

755
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:43,600
Father, I thank you so much for Pam.

756
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:48,600
I thank you for her willingness to walk through

757
00:43:50,240 --> 00:43:53,840
the pain again, which I know she does many times,

758
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:58,640
but to do that here so that others can hear

759
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:01,560
and learn and be helped.

760
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:06,640
And I thank you for the truths that she's mentioned

761
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:11,640
over and over that if something happens to your loved one

762
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:15,360
and you look back over conversations or texts

763
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:18,120
that you've sent them or the words you've said,

764
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:22,760
you'll be able to say, we love that person well.

765
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:27,200
And I thank you for her sharing that concept with us.

766
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:32,200
And thank you for the lives that have been touched by Jake,

767
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:36,120
the friends who came to honor him

768
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:38,640
and whose lives were touched by him.

769
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:42,840
We thank you for Maddie and the fact that Pam

770
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:46,360
and her husband are able to embrace her

771
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:51,360
and encourage her because it's a loss for her as well.

772
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:57,520
And I just pray that you would multiply compassion,

773
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:02,520
you would multiply grace into and through,

774
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:07,280
flowing through Pam and her husband

775
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:10,040
to the many others they encounter.

776
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:12,660
I pray also that you would just continue

777
00:45:12,660 --> 00:45:15,720
to wrap your arms of love around her

778
00:45:15,720 --> 00:45:20,720
and keep assuring her that you are still loving,

779
00:45:20,720 --> 00:45:25,720
you are still in control and that you will multiply

780
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:32,640
Jake's life even as she thought would be one way,

781
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:36,280
you have another way that you're going to use Jake's life

782
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:38,080
and it will be powerful.

783
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:42,440
So blessings, blessings for Pam.

784
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:46,480
Thank you, Lord, in Jesus' name, amen.

785
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:50,800
Amen, thank you so much for having me, Judy.

786
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:52,720
Oh, Pam, I'm just so grateful

787
00:45:52,720 --> 00:45:57,720
and I just am so grateful for the wonderful truths

788
00:45:57,720 --> 00:45:59,120
that you have shared.

789
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:03,160
And so listeners, I would encourage you

790
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:05,980
because you probably know others with Prodigals

791
00:46:05,980 --> 00:46:08,760
to make sure that they listen to this

792
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:12,820
so they can be helped and touched and encouraged

793
00:46:12,820 --> 00:46:16,880
and feel the love that God has

794
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:19,500
even in the midst of pain and loss.

795
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:24,500
And I hope also that you will take those things

796
00:46:24,500 --> 00:46:29,500
you've jotted down and you will seek to take action steps

797
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:35,200
to show tangible love to a person who's breaking your heart,

798
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:39,640
that you will not return that to them,

799
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:44,640
but you will instead give them love and care and affirmation.

800
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,980
What is one step you can take today?

801
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:53,760
And you may remember looking to what comes next,

802
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:55,480
that I said I would try to answer

803
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:57,560
some questions that you have.

804
00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:01,800
I have decided to tackle one, occasionally two questions

805
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:03,080
at a time.

806
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:08,080
So next week, I am going to respond to the fact

807
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:11,080
that many people always ask me,

808
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:14,520
how do I pray for my Prodigal?

809
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:18,360
Now, Pam said that's where her book came from,

810
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:20,240
and so that's one resource.

811
00:47:20,240 --> 00:47:22,920
But you have questions about it,

812
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:27,920
and so our whole time next week will be about how to pray.

813
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:30,520
When you have a Prodigal, pray for yourself,

814
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:33,320
but especially pray for that loved one

815
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:35,880
that you care so much about.

816
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:38,880
And I will try to shed some light

817
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:42,480
on praying to God for your wanderer.

818
00:47:42,480 --> 00:48:05,480
God bless you.