Spencer Brand: He has walked where we have walked, episode 109

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If you love a prodigal, you can discover help and hope for your wilderness journey

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right here at When You Love a Prodigal. And also help and hope for your own life

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journey. And as I always say, don't forget to jot down any helpful thoughts or

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actions that you hear or absorb from today because you'll think you'll

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remember. But if you don't write it down, you probably won't. So we want you to get

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really solid encouragement and help in your journey. Now I am excited for our

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guest today. His name is Spencer Brand. I've known him for decades, I think. And I

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have had the privilege of participating with him in some conferences for people

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with prodigals of varying kinds and ages. And Spencer has a huge, wonderful

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background. He has been director of special projects in the president's

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office for our ministry for Campus Crusade Crew for 37 years and is the

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founder and currently president of the Endowment for Community Leadership, which

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is a nonprofit organization dedicated to the development of the next generation

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of American leaders. Spencer graduated from the University of Minnesota. He has

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a master's degree in public affairs and held senior positions in the office of

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the secretary at the Department of Labor and the Department of the Interior. He's

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been a consultant and speaker for almost 50 years serving public and private

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leaders on multiple continents in the areas of strategic effectiveness and

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interpersonal relationships. And you know, maybe the interpersonal relationships are

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part of what he really can help us with. He and his wife Barbara have been married

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for 47 years and have four grown children and several grandchildren, right?

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Yes, three grandchildren.

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Yes, okay. And the main reason he's talking with us today is he has walked

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where we are walking and he has a lot of experience and wisdom. So Spencer, you

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have always been one of the favorite speakers at the gatherings for parents

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of prodigals that we have both been a part of. And I believe your consistent

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ability to connect is from the hard challenges of your life. You have walked

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where we've walked in this audience but more people than that as well. God's

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taking you through quite a few things. And so let me just get going with some

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questions and we'll talk for the next 30 or 40 minutes. So I'm gonna

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start at hard. Give us some background on the challenges that you and your

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family have faced, if you can please.

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Well, I think, Judy, first of all, while I was working in Washington, DC is when I

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came to faith in Christ really through the influence of my older brother who

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was at that time director of the ministry at Penn State with campus

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crusade. And I understood from him how to share my faith, how to walk in the

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spirit and so on and all of that. But in any case in May of 1975 or early 75 I was

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invited to come out to Arrowhead Spring because a publication called Worldwide

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Challenge. Good magazine. It was doing an article on ministry in Washington, DC and it was at that time that I

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briefly met this beautiful young woman named Judy Downs. And we had just some

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brief conversation and I was interviewed by someone I don't recall who but later

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that evening Trudy Bush and I went out to dinner at Marie Callender's. And at

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Marie Callender's while we were talking about a number of things and again I'm

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in my early 20s, I'm full of myself, I have some very heady positions in

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Washington, lots of wonderful experiences. She turned to me and she said,

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Spencer, may I ask you a question? And I said, well of course. She said, have you ever

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thought that God might want to change your personality? And I thought to myself

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you know of course he does because we're to be transformed not conformed to the

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world. And that was the beginning of my spiritual journey of Lord I want to be

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who you want me to be, I want to do what you want me to do to say what you want

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me to say. Then I met my wife shortly after that we were married in 1976 for

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about seven years before we had our first child and then we had three others

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a total of four children. In 1992 my wife's left side of her body went

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completely numb and we went to the doctor and she was diagnosed with

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multiple sclerosis. She had multiple sclerosis now for about 32 years.

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Bedridden at times, loss of eyesight, excruciating pain which meant she had to

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withdraw from so much of the family life with our children. I had just returned

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from a couple of weeks in the Soviet Union at that time our children were 9, 7,

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4, and 2. And so I had to basically stop all ministry activity became in essence

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a single parent. Well as our children grew our oldest daughter who's now 40

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married the one with the three grandchildren kept walking with the Lord

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mission trips to Camps Crusade and so on. Our second child who's now 38 involved

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a couple of mission trips started fellowship of Christian athletes in high

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school then went out to California to attend seminary. She would now deny that

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she's a Christian and she is dating a Muslim and considering marriage. It's her

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first prodigal the one most unexpected that happened later in life. Our third

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child when she was in about sixth grade started experiencing a number of

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difficulties, troubles, psychologists, psychiatrists, all of that. Ended up in

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her freshman year of high school having to have her removed and taken to a

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facility in upstate New York that was for drug rehabilitation, alcoholics,

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children with a variety of disorders and she was there for a year and a half. She

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then left that went on to college was doing well then walked away from college

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and has struggled for a number of years. Today really trying to find her identity

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looked with a man for about seven years then moved in with a girl across the

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country. Now she works for a government agency that primarily helps LGBTQ people

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in Muslim countries so she would also be struggling with who am I what's my

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identity sees God has no plan in her life so on. Our fourth child our son

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ended up in special forces he's walking with the Lord and doing quite well. So we

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have two prodigals and this has been going on, Judy, for 20 some years so

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it's been a long journey for them. That is a long journey. So how is your

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relationship with them? With our with our second daughter it's changed

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wonderfully in the last few weeks because about two or three weeks ago my

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wife went in for a no mammogram and thought they saw something, then a

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sonogram, then a biopsy and she's been diagnosed with breast cancer and

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actually she'll go in for surgery on the 21st but that has caused a great deal of

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concern among all of our children and now yes and their daughter in California

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wants to fly out spend time with Barbara and so on which we will arrange for and

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our other daughter who has now moved back relatively close to us though we

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don't know her address we know she's in the same county in Virginia now. She's

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also contacted us and may stop by this past weekend so out of this kind of

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additional experience and struggle that my wife is facing it perhaps there's now

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an openness here otherwise it's basically kind of elevator talk from

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time to time sometimes months without conversation with the one daughter at one

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season the year and a half without any contact so it kind of depends on the

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season but with those two for the most part Judy I would describe it almost as

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elevator talk. Elevator talk. Yeah and I think of this verse you know it says and

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we don't think of our children this way but because of their view toward the

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Lord and so on. In 2nd Timothy it says opponents must be gently instructed. I

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thought you know we don't think of our children as an opponent but in the

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spiritual sense they really are. In the hope that God will grant them repentance

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leading them to a knowledge of the truth. So instead of trying yeah I think learn

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the hard way instead of trying to correct or you know whatever it is we

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want to do to try to fix our kids. Yes even for them and maintaining our

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relationship. Yes I really agree with that. Our tendency is one to say you're

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wrong we're right where why don't you get it. Yeah and and really our main way

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to help them and connect with them is that we love them and we seek to have

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relationship with them but we do also recognize their adults and we we don't

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have authority over them. And I think Judy at times we've kind of related to

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certainly I have related to them like if you're trying to speak with someone who

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doesn't understand English you you speak louder result you know help their

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understand I think we've done I certainly have done that with my

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children you know a lot but I love but the rest of that verse says and that

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they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil who

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has taken them captive to do his will. And when again we see that they're were

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involved in a spiritual battle it's not just it's not just you know the stuff of

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life there's something much deeper there that's why we want to approach them

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gently to the degree we can because because only the Holy Spirit's going to

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produce the change that we desire. That is so true that is so true. Well let's

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just think about some of the major things that you have learned on this

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long journey that's still going and and what is it that God has done in your

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life or revealed to you or shown you as you have walked through this and and

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learned how how do I keep going because you have to keep living. Well I think a

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good friend of ours gave us some good advice years ago that when you're really

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struggling with this and again for us you know it all of us have children that

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are so different you know some very young some old some drug some alcohol

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some sexual identity all of the strict things that we struggle with and other

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behavioral disorder. So instead of trying to kind of how do I relate to my

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children is like how can you Lord how do we experience you in the midst of these

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ongoing struggles that may last a lifetime. And I think the first thing

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Judy is that if you're married and you have a husband and wife you need to draw

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closer together and that's not our nature. Just like Adam and Eve when they sin

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they ran away from the one who loved them the most and hid. And when I'm

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struggling I'll have a tendency to want to withdraw from Barbara solve the

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problems on my own then come to her with the solution or she may be in prayer she

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may withdraw as well and what we learned early on is that we must be meeting

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together talking together praying together and becoming one-minded to the

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degree possible on how to relate to each of the different children. Because again

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men and women are so completely different and mothers and fathers are so

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completely different. A mother has a whole different perspective than a father

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does and that's why there's often not right and wrong it's different

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perspectives to come to kind of a medium. So that's the first thing Barbara and I

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you know understood now perhaps for us a little bit easier because we were

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married for seven years before we had children and we didn't expect children

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the doctors didn't think Barbara could conceive. So it was kind of an unexpected

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you know situation for us. I think the other thing is to be fixing our eyes on the

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author and perfecter of our faith not on our children. Now there's practical

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encouragement but there's the deeper encouragement in the Lord so kind of as

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a practical aside. Two years ago I'm in northern Minnesota attending a baptism

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that a small church was giving at a local lake and the three people being

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baptized was an 18 year old girl and her 16 year old brother and an 89 year old

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man and I thought Lord I thought Lord if it's my children at 89 they're yours.

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I just need to remember that you are in control you have them in your hand. I

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love what Abraham Kuyper said both with our children and us he says but also to

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teach you the struggles we're going through to teach you to trust in him

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when everything is gone all is dark and nothing more is left and we've all been

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in those places and Judy you and to teach you that when love leaves faith

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evaporates and hope sinks away all is not yet lost for he the Lord is still

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powerful enough to gather your life to himself and say Satan you can never

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tear this person out of my hands. So whether it's us or our children so yes we want to

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hope hopefully before 89 but even that great rejoicing but also our hope

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really needs to be placed in the Lord. That's beautiful so one of the

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things you mentioned before when we were communicating you talked about parental

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guilt what were you would you feel guilty for and what impact did that have

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and how do you respond to that? I think first of all that may I don't know if

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this is as true with mothers as it is with fathers because the father of

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tendencies you know I should have fixed them if only I had done something

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different. So when I meet with men that have that are struggling with children

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that have really wandered away or all these other issues that we've talked

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about they're constantly saying if I had just done this I should have done this

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we shouldn't have lived there I shouldn't have had them in that school

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it's a hundred different we used to have a support group in our home with the

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moment our daughter was taken up to the school in New York we decided to have a

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support group in our home for parents who were struggling with the same kinds

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of thing you know out of CS Lewis one true friendship is formed when one

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person says to another what you too I thought I was the only one but also how

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we are as we go through our suffering part of that is so that we might come

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to other but as we would go around the world people would say well the reason

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my child is struggling is we have too much money the reason my child is

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struggling is we're poor the reason my child is struggling is they were adopted

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the reason my child was struggling is they were the only child the reason my

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child all of the reasons that we try to come up with for the behavior of our

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children so men are driven to want to fix them so they keep doing if only if

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only we had done and the thing I try to share with them and his mother's do it

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too is two things one first of all biblically in second in Corinthians

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chapter 10 verse 5 it says we demolish arguments in every pretension that

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sets itself up against the knowledge of God and we take captive every thought

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when I do an if only it's vain imagination and I need to recognize it

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if I'm a believer of sin Lord I've sinned against you because I'm having

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his vain imagination so Lord thank you that he died on the cross that's and

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I'll take control of my life but now again on the practical side of it

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whenever we do it if only we always attach a positive outcome to it if only

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they'd gone to a different school they could have been run over by a bus on the

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way to that school but we never attach a negative to an if only so Lord is

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beyond my control you are the sovereign of the universe you have freedom to move

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in each of our hearts the number of times I've disobeyed you the number of

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times I've chosen sinful things sinful deeds simple but so Lord my child was on

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that same pilgrimage just in a different place than perhaps I was here I am

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hopefully but Lord I don't want to be caught up in that self-examination that

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idea that if only I had done something I could this these problems wouldn't have

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developed because actually it's a sort of pride that I really can control my

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child's life if I had just done the right thing on to more games hugged them

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or not yelled at them not disciplined them whatever it might be Judy so that

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that's you know what I mean by that parental deal I'm just ability well and

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I think that pretty near anyone listening today can identify with that

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there are so many if onlys and we have such a tendency to think it's our fault

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or certainly we played a role and we may have but that doesn't mean it's fault

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like that because God's still working even when we blow it or they blow it

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there God is at work I love that he says in Scripture that he is always working

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yeah one night when Barbara was struggling with a lot of pain I went in

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the other room turned on the television to and caught dr. Phil and one of his

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comments was I thought was so profound he said our children may be 100%

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innocent of what happened to them even the things that we may have done or

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didn't do but today they're 100% responsible for their response to it

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and I think that's a very healthy thing for us to keep in mind check if you have

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older children I'm not talking about younger children older children they

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have they can make all sorts of choices what they're gonna do this Friday night

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what they're gonna do Sunday morning we all have those choices so yeah I agree

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one of the things you mentioned also well actually some several things but

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one was depression and others were you know the tendency to pull you apart in

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your marriage which I've observed for many and it may be prodigals it may be

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mental health it may be I have friends with odd whose child has autism it was a

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real stress on their marriage any hard thing I'm sure that that Barbara's

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health issues have been a stress on your marriage as well so you want to talk

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about that a little yes I think first of all Russian sometime again that I'm not

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talking about clinically and so on is almost like being caught in a riptide

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you know when you're at the ocean everyone's a while you'll hear of these

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dangerous riptides and they start to pull you out to sea and you panic and so

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you try to swim to shore and that's when people drown because they cannot fight

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that riptide and they'll end up becoming fatigued and wrong but if you let that

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riptide pull you out you'll it'll come to a place where it ends and then you can

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swim horizontally to the shore of course if you're a swimmer and come

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safely to shore and I think sometimes seasons of depression within married

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couples with children we'll talk about kind of clinical depression but let's

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say the depression that happens when your dreams are shattered your child

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didn't go to the prom your child didn't go to homecoming your child didn't have

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the wedding you thought they were gonna have or the children that you were gonna

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have all of our dreams that are shattered that caused us to be depressed

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it wasn't the life that I expected it to be what's the reason from going on Dan

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Folgerberg said you know we face the future from a weary past so first of all

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those are seasons and in those seasons God has not left you he's still there

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even if you cannot see him feel him or touch him and that's why I love Thomas

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the Apostle because without him Jesus would not have said thus it are those

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who have not seen and yet believe and maybe I'd add those have not seen those

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have not heard those they're not feel so first of all in that season of

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depression we want to be sure that we are going into the scriptures now why I

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love what another friend of mine says says you want to read the Bible not

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because you have to but because you get to just perspective I can go into that

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book and read the Psalms of David struggling Lord where are you you've

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abandoned me there's no hope knowing that's God speaking to me when I'm

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reading God's word he's speaking to me and he's the one that says Spencer I

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know how you feel my the one who loved me in an incredible way felt the same

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way that I had abandoned him Jim my own son on the cross said father why have

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you forsaken me I know how you feel but I'm here when it comes to the marriage

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situation we need to keep going back that we are to leave and cleave and I

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know that sounds simple but the priority is that marriage relationship not the

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children not the in-laws not the parents it's it's a marriage we are to be married

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until the day the Lord takes us home or today what we are I mean even if we're

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separated in a nursing home or whatever our children and Judy I check more I

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think about it it's really amazing you have poured your heart your time your

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talent your treasure and your children's life perhaps even more than kind of your

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husband because of the you're kind of co-equal so that one day they'd leave

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you they'd move out they'd say goodbye mom goodbye dad they'd have their own

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families it's really kind of a strange thing we think the very one that we you

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know have nurtured from whatever age or given birth to or whatever we raised

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them to one day leave us and that's why I always think of Hannah all she wanted

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was a child that's all she wanted the Lord said okay you can have this child

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but now give him back to me he's mine so I think for married folks for single

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parents your life cannot be in your child if it's husband and wife your life

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needs to be together and you really have to come together and encourage each

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other ask the other your partner what you can be praying for about them you'll

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find out what's most important to them if you can't go away together or whatever

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then try to find some time where the two of you can nurture each other yes I've

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often told people that my ministry is to get Barbara a platform for her because

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she is changing the world as she says from a bit she's an amazing woman with

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great spiritual depth yeah yeah and and so if I am a husband I want to remember

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that my responsibility is to love my wife as Jesus loves me every time I

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rebel against him he loves me every time I disagree with him he loves me every

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time I argue with him he loves me every time I don't do what he wants me to do

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he loves me and every time when I finally say okay Lord let me listen he

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loves me and I think husbands need to really listen to their wives and when

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they don't pay attention when they know all the things that you're so because

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that's our responsibility and wives I think when they hear their husbands say

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something and I'm talking now about children well they don't agree with them

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they don't like ask questions why do you think we should do that with our child

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why do you think we shouldn't do whatever the issue is so instead of

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just reacting to when he says let's send him away or something I can't think of

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a good example ask why he's thinking that way because men typically won't

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don't share a lot of what's going on in their life you know there was an old

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motivational speaker named Charlie tremendous Jones yes I remember this one

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statement he said his wife spoke 140 words a minute with gusts up to 180 and

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and if you were to ask me how my day is I'd say fine so you have to ask me to

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and so wives ask their husband questions as to why they think the way they do and

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husbands remember your role is to come alongside of your wife to learn from her

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she has a completely different perspective than you do on children on

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all sorts of well everything but we're particularly talking about children so

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that you really grow together to become one not only the new tackle so our

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daughter's up at the school for a year and a half she finally comes home we

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open up her journal only to discover that she had been living with a family

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off campus so to speak in the last few months and had developed a relationship

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with the husband of the woman that had taken on them and now my heart was

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shattered and broken and I could not tell Barb she was really going through a

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difficult time with her MS and there was no way I could tell her this I knew it

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would just destroy it and I struggled with this and finally I called a

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dear friend of mine and said what can I do he said well you have to talk to your

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book life about it you have to tell Barb his first bit of a guy he said

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Spencer you're going together in life as one I said you're absolutely right so I

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went in and talked to Barbara told her the whole story what I discovered in our

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daughter's journal and she had her response with but we need to pray it

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didn't destroy her it didn't see even my protective thing of my wife and so on

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it's the same friend by the way who said Judy if you don't have people in your

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life that are encouraging you and you don't have people in their life that

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will dope slap you that's his word I my generation was kick you in the butt

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you're trafficking with the wrong people we need to have people at a time so

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encourages but also times to kick us in the butt you know it's kind of like as

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well chamber said moods don't come out with pleading they come out with kicking

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or something like that maybe maybe my current paraphrase you know I really

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resonate with what you're said Stephen I did things a lot different like and I'm

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the one you know Josh God sent to us and he told me he was sending us a son and

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it took it was a number of years and then all of a sudden we had this boy he

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was almost him he could barely read or write and he had so many issues from

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fetal alcohol syndrome and abandonment and we had no clue I tend to be the more

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soft and caring person not always but mostly and Steve was just horrified at

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his lack of willingness to work and his lack of responsibility in that kind of

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thing so we both had to learn because we were way over our heads and and so we we

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would talk and we would pray and we would learn from each other and so I

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became a little tougher and he became a little softer and and eventually the

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sweet thing that happened was that he and Josh really connected but it took a

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lot of years for that to happen because Josh felt he was mean to him or he was

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too tough on him and stuff and and at the end they were just as sweet as they

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could be and Josh you know Steve left recently moved to heaven and Josh wept

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because he had really grown to love his dad who had been pretty hard on him but

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who was slowly being able to to really show something that felt like love to

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Josh and so it it was a learning process and it didn't happen overnight for us

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yeah and for many of us Judy that may take years but what a wonderful the

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Josh Josh wept I mean it all comes back to love doesn't it all these things come

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back to love no great has this the love of the Lord with all our heart soul in

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mind the neighbor loving our neighbor obviously the fruit of the Spirit and so

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on but yeah it really does but I love the way you describe that because it's a

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process for the husband and wife yeah yeah it was yeah but it's been

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really sweet to see how Josh has loved him back now but it took a long time

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yeah and I would suspect to Judy that 10 20 years Lord willing Josh is around

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he'll look back and a lot of those things as Steve was hard on and see that

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they really helped shape decisions he's making now you know I think of my father

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who was oh every time I'm tempted tempted not to put something away that

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my father's voice rings in my ear put your tools away when you're finished

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okay well I didn't want to for 30 years but now now I you know now I'm doing it

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I guess I'm a slow learner that's well aren't we all learners one of the things

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along that line that was has been really fun to see just Steve calls Josh the

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most creative work of order he'd ever seen and Steve's kind of you know into

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hard work and and so it just drove him crazy that Josh would get his friends to

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do stuff for him he'd you know he'd always get other people to he wouldn't

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get his schoolwork done he just didn't work very well but God did a work in his

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life and he is now someone we consider one of the hardest-working people we've

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ever watched he has a labor job coming from his mother's drugs and alcohol and

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but he works really hard at his job drilling water wells Wow and then he

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comes home they have a little farm and so then he comes home and he does all

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the farm chores and then on the weekends he does work around the farm that needs

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to be done and every time I'm there he comes and we talk a little and then he's

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off working again and I I've gotten used to it finally but at first when we

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realized the difference I just I'd be there and I would just weep I say look

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at him work so and Steve had a lot to do with that so just the duty the digging

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water wells what the what benefit that brings to human being and we talk of

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living water but the reality of water itself I mean that's just terrific I

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love that yeah I've told him maybe you should you know go to Africa and help

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them dig wells there he said I have three children and the farm right now

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well we'll see what God has in mind or not so in the midst of the challenges

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that you faced how have you maintained hope in your life because with the

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combination of Barbara's health issues and then each different you know the two

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different children especially who have been a challenge but each of them have

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you know that could be so depressing and so discouraging and yet you still are

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not only able to maintain hope for yourself and your family but you're able

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to help others as well I think Judy sometimes when we talk about going into

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the scriptures it's almost like well okay that's the spiritual answer but I

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mean what can I really do to solve my problem and I think we have to remember

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going back to Romans 12 1 & 2 don't be conformed as world but be transformed by

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the renewing of your mind and dr. Bride always would talk about the caterpillar

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becoming the the attack I think it was an error because you talked about the

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caterpillar becoming the moth but actually the caterpillar becomes a

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butterfly but any event that's that idea of being transformed is metamorphosis

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it's changing the way I see things the way I respond to things and only the

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Holy Spirit can do that so for example in Romans chapter 5 therefore having

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been just but justified by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus

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Christ for whom also we've obtained our introduction by faith into this grace

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in which we stand we exalt in hope of the glory of God not in hope my children

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will change not in hope my affliction will leave me not a not in the hope that

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I'll no longer have MS or all of these issues but our hope in the glory of God

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and not only this but we also exalt in our tribulations Lord let me learn to

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exalt when I'm doing the dishes all the time when Barbara cannot communicate

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with the rest of the family we're out enjoying when the children were younger

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laughter in the kitchen table and she's at the far end of the house she can hear

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us but she can't participate in all the struggles she's having to go through let

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me learn to exalt in tribulation knowing the tribulation brings about

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perseverance and Judy with our children we all desire that we would die before

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our children and so if we desire a long age for our children by God's grace we

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are we need perseverance because they may be wandering for years you know if

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if Israel wandered in the desert for 40 years perhaps our children will too yes

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and perseverance proven character and proven character what hope and hope does

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not disappoint because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts

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through the Holy Spirit who was given to us so we see faith hope and love in this

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one singular passage all focused on our relationship with the Lord by the

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renewing of our mind yeah how do we do that three times in the book of Philippians

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it tells us I have learned to be content I have learned I have learned and

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learning as you know is a difficult lifelong process the skills that you've

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developed as an editor of worldwide challenge and all the writing and all of

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the stuff you've done is a skill that was learned in a very early age learning

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how to do the alphabet in whatever it is kindergarten or first grade whenever we

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learned that all those years all the benefit that's brought to your life in

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the life of others but it took years well then her relationship with the Lord we

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are growing in that for years we can't just say well I've read the Bible now

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can I know you need to give into the Bible to understand the spirit for life

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and that's why I started off with song with talking about Trudy Bush asking me

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I should change my personality because Psalm 139 says search me Oh Lord you

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know if there's anything displeasing or hurtful in my life that's the way I want

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to start every day so that I can have Spencer the way you spoke to your child

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yesterday was harshly the way you related to your wife Spencer was not

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proper the way that you you know whatever Lord thank you that you died on

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the cross for those things not take control of my life it's exciting when God

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will be all sin in my life because it's one more area of my life he can transform

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and then the second thing that happened in my life Judy nothing Christian

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pivotal my Christian experience as I mentioned I came to Washington had all

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these heavy experiences it was all about me with me then I come to Christ my

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brother tells him I need to go to church well I don't want to go to church but he

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sent me up to you of course he was out in Pennsylvania he sent me to fourth

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Presbyterian Church and those days Dick Alverson was the pastor later was a

425
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chaplain of the United States and and the first night I walked into that church

426
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:39,800
he spoke on Philippians chapter 2 consider the needs of others more

427
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:44,320
important than yourself and that was transformational in my life it's about

428
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:50,880
you not about me it's about my wife not about me it's about my children so then

429
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:57,240
Lord love is what's in their best interest not mine so if my role is to

430
00:35:57,240 --> 00:36:01,720
serve my wife because of the situation she's in that's in her best interest and

431
00:36:01,720 --> 00:36:07,440
that will love it Lord if it's for me to just listen to my child say the most

432
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:11,320
nonsensical things the most disgusting things the most rebellious things the

433
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:16,240
most whatever and I know the truth I know how to correct I know that but if

434
00:36:16,240 --> 00:36:20,600
it's if it's if it's what's in their best interest at that time for me to

435
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:25,560
simply be silent and listen then Lord I need to be silent and listen because

436
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:31,520
it's about them not about me so I think in that marriage relationship in our

437
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,840
relationship with our children we need to remember that love is always doing

438
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:38,120
what's in the best interest of that other person now what's in my best

439
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:43,640
interest and that's transformational and then the other thing and this is a kind

440
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:47,000
of last thought on that line because in first Corinthians one three through

441
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:52,600
seven says blessed be the God the father of our Lord Jesus Christ the father of

442
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:57,840
mercies and the God of all comfort who comforts us in all our tribulation that

443
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:02,800
we may be able to be to comfort those who are in any trouble so in other words

444
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:07,000
again immediately we're pushed to helping other people by the comfort with

445
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:11,920
which we ourselves are comforted by God and then it goes through tribulations and

446
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,880
the afflictions and so on then it says for if we are comforted it is for your

447
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:21,520
consolation and salvation in that passage he said God comforts us but he

448
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:25,240
doesn't take away the affliction there's no mention in there they takes away the

449
00:37:25,240 --> 00:37:29,240
pain that he takes away the affliction that he changes our children any of

450
00:37:29,240 --> 00:37:32,720
those things you're in that passage it's in the midst of whatever you find

451
00:37:32,720 --> 00:37:38,480
yourself in come to me I am all you who are weary and heavy laden and I will

452
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:42,640
give you rest he wants to comfort us so that we can persevere for the long haul

453
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:48,080
our lives can be characterized by faith hope and most importantly love love with

454
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:53,040
our our spouse love with our children of course our neighbors and so on and then

455
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:57,320
the last kind of along those lines is where he says my grace is sufficient his

456
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:01,680
grace is sufficient for the moment and I want to take cap of those strange

457
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:05,200
thoughts I have with the future and all that kind of stuff I want to take captive

458
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:09,000
the thoughts that I may have things I should have done in the past he says my

459
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:15,400
grace is sufficient for today so I take it a day at a time Wow so Spencer the

460
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:23,360
theme for this year's prodigal prayer day which was last week was joy and the

461
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:31,160
hard journey and I did several little devotions leading up to it on joy

462
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:40,600
and boy was that instructional it was amazing our theme was considerate pure

463
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:50,240
joy when you encounter various trials from James 1 2 2 1 1 2 I think and and

464
00:38:50,240 --> 00:38:58,360
so consider means it really is an action that you're gonna take as opposed to you

465
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:04,960
feel joyful it says consider which is to think about to recognize to see how it's

466
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:12,920
true pure joy and I just go wow that's that's asking a lot and then several

467
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:17,500
places in the New Testament and in especially the journeys of the children

468
00:39:17,500 --> 00:39:24,000
of Israel but other things it says over and over and over in Scripture rejoice

469
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:32,640
always and and so my my challenge and then my challenge to the people in our

470
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:40,520
community was can you do that not in your own power maybe but probably but

471
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:46,840
certainly God has said rejoice always considerate joy when you encounter

472
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:53,960
trials any thoughts on how they can do that better because that would make a

473
00:39:53,960 --> 00:40:00,600
huge difference in our responses and our lives if instead of be moaning the

474
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:06,920
trials the hard things in our lives we can take God at his word and rejoice

475
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:12,560
that is really difficult Judy and it's um you know it's easier for a person who's

476
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:17,280
suffering a little bit it's much harder for a person that is struggling with

477
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:22,720
suffering that we can't imagine for a variety of reasons but I think a couple

478
00:40:22,720 --> 00:40:27,000
things first of all joy is a fruit of the Spirit and even if we go back to

479
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:32,440
that whole illustration we've all learned of faith fact and feeling joy is

480
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:38,640
faith it's not a feeling right it's a fact because God says to us that if we

481
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:43,640
abide in him he will disclose himself to us and make his joy complete in our life

482
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:48,240
so first of all it's a movement of the Holy Spirit in our lives but it's one of

483
00:40:48,240 --> 00:40:51,880
faith so every time the situation happens I'll just give you Barbara's

484
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:55,520
example recently when she got the diagnosis of breast cancer this is after

485
00:40:55,520 --> 00:41:01,440
32 years of MS and all and two prodigal children so she said well Lord I'm

486
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:05,520
looking forward with anticipation to the lives of those I can interact with as I

487
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:12,640
enter into this journey yeah but that's because she's invested in her

488
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:16,760
relationship with the Lord for years when she was first diagnosed with the

489
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:21,800
with MS as she was going into the MRI that the neurologist told her it's

490
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:26,680
either brain tumor MS she said first of all Lord you're not a stranger to me so

491
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:30,720
this will be I'll meet you in the middle of that MRI and then Lord if your will be

492
00:41:30,720 --> 00:41:34,720
done I'd rather have MS because I'll live longer most likely to see my

493
00:41:34,720 --> 00:41:40,160
children go up but God was not a stranger to her shortly after that

494
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:43,600
because she had made an investment in her relationship with the Lord all all

495
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:47,760
those many years long before this happened and long before we had children

496
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:51,600
and then shortly after that I watched an interview with Clint Eastwood you know

497
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:54,680
kind of the man's man you know the guy we'd want to be president because he'd

498
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:59,280
solve all the problems in the world and they asked him well what do you but what

499
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:03,800
do you believe happens after death and all of a sudden this man's man became a

500
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:09,560
little boy and he said I don't know and he here was my wife to whom God the

501
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:12,800
creator of the universe was not a stranger and the Clint Eastwood at that

502
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:18,120
time he didn't know who this God was he was like a little boy wondering what was

503
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:22,720
out there so I think first of all I keep going back to the scriptures but well

504
00:42:22,720 --> 00:42:27,080
also the walking in the spirit joy is Lord I'm choosing today to engage

505
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:32,680
whatever circumstance comes into my life I'm praying with anticipation not

506
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:39,800
expectation expectation is premeditated resentment if I expect that I'm you know

507
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:43,520
gonna have a good meal and I show up at a restaurant where it's lousy I'll be

508
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:48,580
upset and resentful and mad if I walk to go into a restaurant say Lord I'm

509
00:42:48,580 --> 00:42:52,600
anticipating somehow some way we're going to have an encounter in this

510
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:58,720
restaurant and the food is bad well it will free me from that irritation and

511
00:42:58,720 --> 00:43:02,240
instead be concerned about the waitstaff or the cook or whatever the

512
00:43:02,240 --> 00:43:06,440
person sitting next to me so I think first of all one it's the fruit of the

513
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:09,480
spirit and it's an act of the will Lord I want to experience whatever

514
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:14,640
circumstance is show me your joy Lord I will not let go of you until I know your

515
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:19,520
joy it's the fruit of your spirit you've promised it to me if I'm yielding my

516
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:24,320
life and my desires and my wants to you and then we go back to these verses and

517
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:30,360
say now you may have to do that for five years ten years I've often as you know

518
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:35,400
Judy was Johnny Erickson Tata is an example because when she started off at

519
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:40,080
17 I can't go on living this way she's a quadriplegic became one as this

520
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:45,320
beautiful young girl and her first response was I can't live this way now

521
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:51,240
it's what 57 years later somehow some way a day at a time a week at a time and

522
00:43:51,240 --> 00:43:56,040
now she's going through all sorts of other struggles in her life so I can look at that and

523
00:43:56,040 --> 00:44:01,200
say Lord here's an example of someone who could persevere through a struggle so

524
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:05,720
far deeper than mine to remind me Lord the source of her strength the source of

525
00:44:05,720 --> 00:44:10,400
her joy is not because she's a unique person it's because she is wonderfully

526
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:15,000
yielded her life to you day by day step by step through the most difficult

527
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:19,800
depressing lonely times when she rebelled against the Lord didn't want

528
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:23,760
anything to do them all the stuff that we all go through in life and yet by

529
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:28,420
God's grace he didn't let go of her and she continued to yield to him as the

530
00:44:28,420 --> 00:44:33,760
Holy Spirit would whisper to her what he wanted her to know even that one great

531
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:37,720
quote which I'll miss quote of course is it's not being in my wheelchair it's not

532
00:44:37,720 --> 00:44:42,080
your prodigal children it's not your MS it's not your things that are the issue

533
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:45,760
it's your attitude toward all of those things and that's what I want God to be

534
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:51,000
changing in my life is my attitude and that's where again the transformation

535
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:55,800
don't be conformed would be transformed by the renewing of your mind and the

536
00:44:55,800 --> 00:45:00,360
other thing Judy I think for those of us that you know no Christ or whatever you

537
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:06,120
know the word murdered we think of those that have died have been burned at the

538
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:10,960
stake and so on but the word murder in the Greek is Martis it means witness you

539
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:16,680
shall be my witnesses it's Martis we've only attached that you die for it well

540
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:21,680
all of us are his witnesses and all of us are in a sense experiencing that kind

541
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:26,240
of martyrdom because of the struggles in our own families that we never expected

542
00:45:26,240 --> 00:45:29,120
we didn't think it'd be our children we didn't think it would be our health but

543
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:33,400
it may very well be and yet that reflects such great glory to him because

544
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:40,560
of how we're responding to him and so I think joy is possible step by step moment

545
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:44,600
by moment if we engage wholeheartedly what's attacking it greater is he that's

546
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:48,080
in us and he that's in the world thanking God in the midst of whatever

547
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:51,680
circumstance I'm in because he is allowing it for whatever reason that I

548
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:55,840
cannot even understand and may not in this lifetime I may never understand and

549
00:45:55,840 --> 00:46:01,640
yet I trust him by faith that's beautiful thank you thank you Spencer I

550
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:09,380
think you have helped us really go deeper and to the recognition of the

551
00:46:09,380 --> 00:46:14,560
source of all that we need on the journey that we're on for those who are

552
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:20,180
just beginning it that might seem a little scary but those who are in it no

553
00:46:20,180 --> 00:46:26,200
they can't do it but that you have helped us to see that God will be there

554
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:32,600
with us and provide through his spirit the whatever we need at that moment in

555
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:40,080
time and the word of God and trusting in him giving thanks rejoicing those are

556
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:46,720
all outcomes of of trusting God and knowing that he's going to be there for

557
00:46:46,720 --> 00:46:54,200
us even in the very hard journey so thank you so much I am sure my faithful

558
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:59,240
listeners that Spencer has sparked connection and some really helpful

559
00:46:59,240 --> 00:47:07,240
ideas for your journey be sure to write them down right now so you don't forget

560
00:47:07,240 --> 00:47:15,880
whether it was trusting God being in the word recognizing you live right now we

561
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:21,480
don't have control it's not our fault and that you're with us through that

562
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:26,240
journey whatever God has spoken to you write it down and check out the show

563
00:47:26,240 --> 00:47:30,640
notes because we'll have some information for you there how you can

564
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:57,360
learn more from Spencer so thank you God bless you