Sarah Nielsen-Just Keep Going, episode 101

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If you love a prodigal,

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you can discover help and hope for

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your wilderness journey right here

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at When You Love a Prodigal podcast.

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And also hope and help for your own life journey.

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My name is Judy Douglass and I am your host.

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And we have a very special guest today.

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Her name is Sarah Nielsen.

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She's a wife, a mom of three,

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a speaker with Your Choice to Live,

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a drug education prevention and awareness program.

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We'll ask her about that a little later.

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I became acquainted with Sarah several years ago

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when a friend gave me a copy

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of her highly recommended book, Just Keep Going.

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Then Sarah was so nice to give a box of her books

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to our prayer for prodigal ministry,

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which we have been able to share with a lot of people.

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So we're very grateful for that.

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It's really been a help to those with prodigals.

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And I think you, my listeners,

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will enjoy and be grateful for what Sarah has to say.

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So remember, you have to write down

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anything you want to apply.

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You think you'll remember it, but you won't.

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And so just jot yourself a note.

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When she says something, you go,

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oh yeah, I could do that.

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So welcome, Sarah.

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Thank you, Judy.

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I am delighted to get to hear more of your story,

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having read your very personal and practical book.

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So let's just dig right in.

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So give us a little background.

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Tell us some of your story about yourself

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and your prodigal journey.

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Oh, thank you so much, Judy.

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As you said, I am married to wonderful man Bush

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and we have three sons.

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They're all married, two lovely daughters-in-law of mine.

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But 15, 16 years ago, I remember sitting so vividly

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in a treatment center.

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My husband and I were about four rows back

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in a classroom-like setting.

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And we were there because our son was in treatment.

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It was early on in it.

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And they went around the room

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asking us to introduce ourselves.

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And I said, I'm Sarah,

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and I'm here to support our son, Ted.

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And Ted's turn was next.

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And Ted said, my name is Ted

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and I'm an alcoholic and a drug addict.

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And then it was my husband's turn

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and I really had an out-of-body experience.

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I thought, how in the world is that possible?

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We are a Christian family.

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We live in the suburbs.

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We've raised you in the church and in our faith.

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And this is not how it's supposed to go.

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And I just don't even know how that's possible.

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And that was my wake-up call, Judy,

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which is so odd because for 10 years before that,

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we had watched our son in a downward spiral

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and his behavior and drugs and alcohol

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were what we thought was the symptom.

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But in many ways, it was the cause.

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Of course, we never know what the real cause is,

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where our children do what they do,

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whether it's addiction or other things

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we can speculate, but we don't know.

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And so for those 10 years,

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we watched Ted make just poor choices

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and detach from our family

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and go downward, downward, downward.

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And I know that I and many of our listeners

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can identify with what you're saying.

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Sure.

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We don't know.

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And as moms, we think we can fix it.

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That's our job.

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And you would think I would know.

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I was raised in an alcoholic household.

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My father died of alcoholism when I was young,

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but I didn't know, we didn't talk about it.

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So I had no awareness of what the real problem was.

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So can you give us a little more

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about how that got started and what it was like

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as Ted was descending into alcohol and other drugs?

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Sure.

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We had a traumatic, the incident happened in our family

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where a sweet little boy,

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he was like a fourth son to us across the street,

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died of some cancer complications when he was 12.

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He was Ted's best friend.

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And of course, as traumatic,

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and again, we don't know what spurs things on

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or if that's just their genetic makeup

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that is exacerbated by other things

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that that seemed to be when the trouble started

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or at least accelerated it where he was more interested

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in friends than our family and was exhibiting

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high maintenance behavior, should we say,

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increasingly where we were to a point

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where I remember thinking in the summers

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when they were off school,

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we have an incident pretty much every single day with Ted.

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Wow.

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And I'm sure you did this and your readers,

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I read all these parenting books,

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Christian and not and think,

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okay, well, this works with our other two children,

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but this is not working with this child.

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So there's always the inherited possibilities there.

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Absolutely.

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And I know that was true for our son as well.

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So what were you saying to God at this time?

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Or what were your husband and you saying to each other?

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That's a great question.

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My husband is just a beautiful, strong wise Christian.

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And he would tell you he was able to compartmentalize

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better than I was with Ted

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because he had his career and just his makeup.

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But for me, I just was sucked into the vortex of God

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through a heck of a better way.

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God and I were just less than a breath away that time.

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I spent so much time walking, taking prayer walks,

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especially at night when I could cry

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and I could talk out loud and be verbal

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and just beg God for help.

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You know, as I was reading your book,

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that's exactly what you were doing.

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Chapter after chapter was often a conversation with God

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that you were having about your own inadequacy

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or your own fears or your own help request.

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And so that makes it very real

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that you're going through this hard thing,

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but you have God there and he's part of it.

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And so you're not alone in that journey.

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That's right.

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And the rest of your family,

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what did your other sons think about it?

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Well, nobody really knew, of course,

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what prompted this.

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We can ask why all day long, can't we?

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Yes, we can. We still don't know.

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And trauma, of course, of a death of a close friend

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could definitely be a trigger.

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Sure, it could be.

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We don't know.

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Ted says, I don't know, Mom.

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I could have gone down this path anyway.

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I probably would have.

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We don't know.

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But our older son, John, was Ted's best friend.

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They were 18 months apart.

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And so they were very, very close.

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Our youngest son is three and a half years apart.

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So he was a little bit more detached from the situation.

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But John, in his experience, was losing his best friend.

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And John wasn't making those choices.

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And so John was watching this happen

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and it was a huge loss to him.

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And we tried very hard.

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God is so gracious to give me an awareness

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of I do not want this disgust ad nauseum

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with my other children.

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So as much of this tornado was swirling through our house,

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we really tried to shower attention

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on the other two children as well.

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So was there tension then between you and Ted especially?

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Oh, oh yes.

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Yes, there was.

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There was tension.

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That's a really great euphemism, Judy.

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I really didn't feel very equipped.

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I just loved having these three little boys.

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And when teenage time came and then this,

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I just thought, yeah, I am not sure what to do with this.

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Yeah, there was tension.

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But like other parents too, we tried to reward him,

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to punish him, to encourage him, to add things,

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take things away, anything we could think of to do,

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which is great, but it also is,

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makes one think I can fix this.

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I just don't know what the key is yet.

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Sometimes if you keep trying,

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you're gonna hit on what we fix it.

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Yeah, that doesn't happen sometimes.

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But you tried all the things that people would try.

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And of course you were praying as well.

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Absolutely, all day long,

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just to keep my head above water for myself,

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but also for him.

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And Judy, I just, I realized that people

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lose their children and I never would wanna say,

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here's a formula.

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Of course not.

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No formula, right?

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No, it's my experience and that's it alone.

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But on those night walks and sitting by a bonfire

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in our backyard by myself,

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I would look up at the stars and I would say,

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Lord, God, you made all this.

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Surely you can do something about a boy in Brooksdale.

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And that encouraged me.

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I just thought he is in charge, he knows.

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So when and how then did you begin to see a change?

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And where you got some help or things got better?

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Well, when you asked about our family,

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well, Ted went into treatment.

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Willingly?

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Yes, but it was about the 11th hour.

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At that point he was living,

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he had flunked out of college twice

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and was living in a basement apartment with no money

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because Bush and I had decided that we needed to pull back

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on helping his, what ended up to be helping his behavior.

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So he was doing drugs and alcohol

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about 22 hours out of every day.

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But he managed to get those.

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Yes, he managed to get those by,

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which we know there are many means if one is motivated.

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So a sweet friend of Ted's in mind,

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who is his age, named Courtney,

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who we met on a family mission trip a few years before,

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came to me and had lunch with me and said,

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I need to tell you a very hard thing, Sarah.

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I need to tell you that Ted has a very, very,

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very bad drug and alcohol problem.

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And obviously I knew he was at the bottom,

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but I didn't realize the depth of that

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because he wasn't living with us

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and probably because my head was in the sand to a degree.

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And so that night she drove to where he was living

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two hours away to talk to him about treatment

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because her dad is a recovering alcoholic

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and she knew about treatment.

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My dad never got that far.

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And then the next day I went and drove to where he was

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and said, are you ready to go get help?

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And he said yes, and we left with his backpack.

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And two days later he was in 90 days of treatment.

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Good, not just 30 days.

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Exactly, and then it went on after that.

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And what I'll just quickly tell you

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is such an amazing program that God made us aware of

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and that is Collegiate Recovery,

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where there's a school named Augsburg in Minneapolis

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that has a program for students in recovery

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where they can live on campus, go to college,

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and have a community of recovery

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where they can continue working their program.

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How wonderful.

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He did that.

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And he did that.

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Well, that he was willing is a huge step.

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Absolutely.

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Because so often they'll say yes and then they bail out.

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Yes.

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So I'm so glad that he was willing to do that.

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Why don't you tell us a little about how that proceeded

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and where he is now?

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Sure.

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Well, this treatment facility had all kinds of exercises,

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00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:16,160
of course, for him to do.

267
00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:20,960
And one of them was to ask family members

268
00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:25,040
to write an impact letter on how his addiction

269
00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:27,000
had affected us.

270
00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:28,600
And so we all did that.

271
00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:30,840
And Ted said in treatment,

272
00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:35,840
what really jarred him into getting on board,

273
00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:39,400
just because you're sitting in the rooms of treatment

274
00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:42,120
doesn't mean you're on board, we all know.

275
00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:46,000
And he said reading his older brother John's impact letter

276
00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:50,800
on how his addiction had impacted John

277
00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:54,320
was what jarred him into saying,

278
00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:58,840
okay, I need to change, I need to get on board with this.

279
00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:02,680
And John was the brother he was really close to.

280
00:14:02,680 --> 00:14:03,520
That's right.

281
00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:05,600
And John had written to him, Ted,

282
00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:10,520
I lie on the floor of my law school room

283
00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:14,040
and sob that I've lost my brother.

284
00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:16,600
I look at brothers in church worshiping together

285
00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:18,040
and I wish that was us.

286
00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:22,360
So that is what made Ted get serious

287
00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:23,760
and he was ever since then.

288
00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:28,760
He today, 15 years sober, long-term recovery in September,

289
00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:36,080
he is a financial advisor with a financial firm.

290
00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:39,760
He's married to a beautiful, wonderful wife.

291
00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:44,080
And he still works his program of recovery,

292
00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,960
which he will have to do the rest of his life,

293
00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:50,280
going to meetings and working with others

294
00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:51,680
who want to stay sober.

295
00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:56,680
He does living amends, which to the rest of his family,

296
00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:00,760
especially his brothers, because he would say,

297
00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:05,680
I stole so much attention from them and they deserved it

298
00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:08,240
and I need to spend the rest of my life,

299
00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:12,480
not making it up to them, but being the brother

300
00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:14,720
that I wish I had been at the time

301
00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:17,280
and the same to us as parents.

302
00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:19,440
That's beautiful.

303
00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:21,680
That really is.

304
00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:26,680
And so now you actually have done something

305
00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,080
of what I've done, taking that hard journey

306
00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:35,360
and let God use it to touch other lives as well.

307
00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:40,360
And you wrote this book called, Just Keep Going.

308
00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:44,400
How'd you come up with that title?

309
00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,880
I came up with that title because I have several

310
00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:50,720
beautiful and precious friends.

311
00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:52,880
And one of those friends, Cindy,

312
00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:55,600
wrote me an email one day, they were all prone,

313
00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:57,240
but she was prone to do, and she said,

314
00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,680
Sarah, I just feel like in hard times,

315
00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:04,840
God whispers in my ear, just keep going.

316
00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:09,400
And I had so much loved the first chapter of James

317
00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:14,200
about tenacity and using hard times to an advantage.

318
00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:17,120
And that's what resonated with me.

319
00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:20,080
And I thought, what else can we do?

320
00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:23,800
Well, we have a choice, but just keep going

321
00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:25,360
and see what God does.

322
00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,400
Well, as I was reading it, I underlined it,

323
00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:31,600
well, highlighted a lot of things.

324
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:36,600
And one that really stood out to me was as your son was,

325
00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:43,160
in I guess the last year of high school, entering,

326
00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:48,160
and your husband suggested to you that as you entered

327
00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:52,120
the last year of high school with Ted,

328
00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:57,960
that you would just keep on, that you would remember

329
00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,200
that this is the time to love him.

330
00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:03,640
I was gonna read it to you, but I got away

331
00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:05,800
without the book with me, so.

332
00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:07,360
All right, right here.

333
00:17:07,360 --> 00:17:08,920
Page 41.

334
00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:10,680
Yeah. Yeah.

335
00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:12,880
Why don't you read that then?

336
00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:15,120
Outside of his open closet door,

337
00:17:15,120 --> 00:17:17,160
my husband draped his tie on a hook

338
00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:18,880
and then took me by the shoulders.

339
00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:22,680
He said, Sarah, you have just one year left

340
00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:24,440
with Ted at home.

341
00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:26,240
Make it count.

342
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,800
Love him, touch him, hug him, kiss him.

343
00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:32,680
I know you two have your issues with each other,

344
00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:35,760
but the most important thing you can do this year

345
00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:38,840
is to make sure he leaves here knowing you love him.

346
00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:42,800
This book actually came about because of my husband.

347
00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:46,520
It came from journaling I did during those 10 years,

348
00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:50,120
which I do every morning in my quiet time with the Lord.

349
00:17:50,120 --> 00:17:54,800
And every day, God would give me a scripture,

350
00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:59,280
a word, a something, but most often it was a scripture.

351
00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:01,960
And I wrote and wrote and wrote about the scripture

352
00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:02,960
he would give me.

353
00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:07,960
And so when Ted was, I think, a month away

354
00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:11,720
from getting sober, my husband said, honey,

355
00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:15,120
if you're feeling these things,

356
00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:18,200
you know that so many other mothers and parents are,

357
00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:20,560
why don't you put that in a book?

358
00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:22,400
And so that's where that came from.

359
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:24,880
And it's pretty much those journal entries.

360
00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:28,200
Yeah, I have a lot of journal entries too.

361
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:29,200
I'm sure.

362
00:18:31,360 --> 00:18:36,360
But I just think that that message from your husband to you,

363
00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:38,760
that this is the last year at home

364
00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:43,440
where you will have such an ability or opportunity

365
00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:48,440
to really connect with him, even if he's making bad choices.

366
00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:52,440
And his message to love him and hug him

367
00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:57,440
and make sure he knows how much he's loved and cared for

368
00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:01,160
is about the most important message.

369
00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,560
And it's not an easy thing to do

370
00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:08,560
when a child is causing so many heartbreaks and frustration

371
00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:14,280
and you feel helpless because nothing is working.

372
00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:20,240
But what is working, which you may not see for a long time,

373
00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:22,600
is that you're keeping loving.

374
00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:26,680
And to me, that's one of the most important messages

375
00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:31,240
that someone with, especially a child, but any,

376
00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:35,160
even an adult, if they know you love them,

377
00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:37,800
at some point that will woo them back.

378
00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:43,200
And God says the same thing in Romans 2, 4.

379
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,720
It says, don't you know

380
00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:49,200
that I woo them with my loving kindness?

381
00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:54,280
And so I just affirm that.

382
00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:59,600
One of my favorite chapters was Never Give Up,

383
00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,880
which obviously goes with Just Keep Going.

384
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:06,360
So what did you learn about how you never give up?

385
00:20:06,360 --> 00:20:09,960
What does that look like in the trenches?

386
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:14,960
I have an example in my heart that I remember so well

387
00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:18,960
at the bottom, if you will, of our experience with Ted.

388
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,240
And he had called me one day,

389
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:25,320
and we all know this of Moms and Prodigals.

390
00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,400
When you hear your child's voice on the phone,

391
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:32,680
hi, Mom, you can take their temperature immediately, right?

392
00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:37,200
And you hear that in your heart sinks.

393
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,320
And so he was so at the bottom at that point,

394
00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:43,640
I wasn't sure that we were going to keep him,

395
00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,600
that he would choose to keep living.

396
00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:48,200
And I remember it was a morning,

397
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,720
I had my pink bathrobe on and I got off the phone

398
00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,440
and I got on the floor and I just said,

399
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:58,200
Lord, I cannot carry this.

400
00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:01,040
I can't carry this burden of responsibility,

401
00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:02,280
whether he lives or dies.

402
00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:04,480
I can't be the lifeline.

403
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:06,800
I'll pick up the phone.

404
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,640
Sometimes that's not appropriate, but in our case,

405
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:14,640
it was okay and I need to give this to you.

406
00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,200
Judy, I just feel like God said, you know what, baby,

407
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:19,280
God speaks to me in terms of endearment,

408
00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:21,680
if it doesn't to you, I believe it goes to me.

409
00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:25,480
You know what, baby, that was never your responsibility,

410
00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:29,680
never, but thank you for handing that over.

411
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,320
And in answer to your question about never giving up,

412
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:38,320
I did not give up then, but I gave up that being my job.

413
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:42,000
That's good, that's good.

414
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:47,000
Ted and I were speaking in a group of people at church

415
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:50,680
telling our story and somebody in the audience,

416
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,920
a dad said to Ted, what did your parents do right

417
00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:55,760
and what did your parents do wrong?

418
00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:01,920
And he said, well, my parents did the best they could

419
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,320
with the tools they had.

420
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:08,240
And he said, this was all my decision,

421
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:09,800
this is not on my parents,

422
00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:11,720
but if I were to answer that question,

423
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:15,200
I would say that they enabled my behavior

424
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,240
more than they should have.

425
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:21,640
He said, but what they did right

426
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,000
was they never gave up on me.

427
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,760
I knew that when I wanted to get help,

428
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:28,000
they were there for me.

429
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:32,800
And I know that anyone listening is thinking,

430
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:37,200
okay, Lord, I'm gonna ask you to help me to never give up.

431
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,040
Well, we moms know, right, Judy?

432
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:40,960
We know the reason I didn't give up

433
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:43,360
is because I knew what was inside, Ted.

434
00:22:43,360 --> 00:22:46,320
You know your child, you know all the goodness,

435
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:48,120
you know all the God-given gifts,

436
00:22:48,120 --> 00:22:52,680
you know who they really are apart from the behaviors

437
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:53,760
or the addiction.

438
00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:56,840
I love that.

439
00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:01,480
So healing in your family, was that needed?

440
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,720
It was, you know, we're grateful.

441
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:09,800
I know that a child in turmoil can break apart a marriage.

442
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:11,880
Yes, and it does a lot of times.

443
00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:13,240
Yes, it does.

444
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:18,240
And we're so grateful that that did not happen to us.

445
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:20,680
We were not always on the same page,

446
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:25,240
but we in the end had solidarity.

447
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:30,240
But for healing for us, I was told and advised

448
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:33,520
by Ted's counselor in treatment

449
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,680
to go to my own 12-step program for friends and family

450
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:40,640
of people who love a person in substance abuse.

451
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:43,080
And at the time I was like, well, okay,

452
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,000
I'll do that, haven't I done enough?

453
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,080
But okay, I'll do that,

454
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:50,760
because I wanna be a good mom and I'll proceed.

455
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:54,880
And I did do that, I went to a meeting near me right away

456
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,120
and was again sort of shell shocked about it

457
00:23:58,120 --> 00:24:01,240
and thought I just wanna get in the parking lot

458
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:05,800
and cry because whoever thought I'd be in this meeting,

459
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:06,640
not me.

460
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,280
So, but I kept going back

461
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,120
because they say keep coming back six times or more.

462
00:24:12,120 --> 00:24:15,520
And I did that and I was blown away

463
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:19,080
by the help that was there because finally I was sitting

464
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:22,040
next to people who understood what it was like to be me.

465
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,600
You know, all the well-intentioned friends of the world,

466
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,120
they're so precious and sweet, but they don't get it.

467
00:24:28,120 --> 00:24:30,480
They don't get it, because they haven't been there.

468
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:31,840
That's right.

469
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,680
So I still 15 years later

470
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:38,040
and still in my friends and family 12-step program

471
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:41,120
for people who love people in addiction.

472
00:24:41,120 --> 00:24:45,760
And Ted still works his program and our older son, John,

473
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:49,160
also went to the same 12-step program

474
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,880
where he was living, not in our city

475
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,080
and got help for himself and just said, mom,

476
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:55,520
you know, this is just a,

477
00:24:56,360 --> 00:24:58,760
this is a formula for everybody.

478
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:02,040
Yeah, and it's full of God, it's full of God.

479
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:06,080
And my husband doesn't do that.

480
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:07,640
You know, he has his own journey,

481
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,920
but he has embraced the serenity prayer,

482
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:15,920
which he says in his job, often to people in meetings,

483
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:19,720
let's just all stop and say the serenity prayer here,

484
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:20,800
which we laugh about.

485
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,160
And our older son is just so sweet.

486
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,160
I mean, our younger son, he, again,

487
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:26,920
he was a little detached from the situation,

488
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:28,280
although he knew it was going on

489
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,240
and he's just absorbing the recovery

490
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,440
of everybody else right now.

491
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:34,920
That's great.

492
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:39,160
So God's given you not only a book, you have a website.

493
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:40,960
What is it for?

494
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,600
The website is a compilation of information

495
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:47,200
that I wish I had when we were in the middle of things

496
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:51,640
with Ted, I was so starved for information or help.

497
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:52,920
I went to Youth Bastards.

498
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,880
I went to as many books as I could find.

499
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:57,880
Again, I didn't go to addiction books.

500
00:25:57,880 --> 00:25:59,960
I didn't know that was the real problem,

501
00:25:59,960 --> 00:26:03,360
but counselors, I used to went everywhere

502
00:26:03,360 --> 00:26:05,960
and I couldn't find anything that was helping me.

503
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,600
So anyway, when we did come into all this help

504
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:14,600
and information, I was often called on at church.

505
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,400
We were at a mega church in Wisconsin at the time

506
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:22,240
and people, we kind of laugh and we'll start humor,

507
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,600
but people go, oh, well on that topic,

508
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:25,960
why don't we ask Sarah Nielsen,

509
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:28,080
doesn't she have a kid that had problems?

510
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:33,520
So Ted was so generous to let us tell our story

511
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:35,240
and sometimes that's not possible.

512
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,720
It needs to be confidential sometimes,

513
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,200
but Ted allowed us to do that.

514
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,080
He said, if it's gonna help someone, mom, go ahead.

515
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:43,920
And you also-

516
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:45,680
That's what my son says every time.

517
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:47,160
Does he?

518
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:48,960
That's so beautiful.

519
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,200
And so we were, I would tell a story,

520
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:52,760
but then they'd have moms call me

521
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:54,880
and I was telling this information so much.

522
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:56,840
My husband said, why don't you just do a website

523
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,560
and you can tell people go to the website.

524
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:00,520
So that's what I did.

525
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:02,880
Now there's so much more information out there.

526
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:04,960
And what is the website called?

527
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:09,960
It's called just keep going parents.com.

528
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,320
And what might they find there?

529
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:16,680
You can find a little bit about our story.

530
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:20,400
You can find video testimonies, if you will,

531
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,240
from Ted right at the beginning when he got sober.

532
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:24,360
It was a long time ago.

533
00:27:24,360 --> 00:27:27,040
And others who have struggled with addiction

534
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,280
and what helped them to get sober

535
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,240
and they're very God's filled stories.

536
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,840
And there's one about eating disorder as well,

537
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:37,920
although that has not been our experience.

538
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:42,920
But that and a library of books that were helpful to me

539
00:27:43,120 --> 00:27:47,560
that I would highly recommend and links to other resources.

540
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:49,840
Fantastic.

541
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,720
So what is your choice to live?

542
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,120
Your choice to live is an organization

543
00:27:56,120 --> 00:27:58,040
that's actually under new management now

544
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:03,040
since I spoke with them for about five years.

545
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:05,280
And I haven't for a while

546
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,680
because things had switched around with them.

547
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,240
But it's funny because Ted was in treatment

548
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,880
with a young man whose parents sat down and said,

549
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:15,520
what could we do to help other parents?

550
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:17,720
And they started Your Choice,

551
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,200
which was a grassroots organization

552
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:25,200
of people in addicts and recovery, their son primarily,

553
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,920
the siblings talking about what it's like

554
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,760
to be a sibling of someone in addiction

555
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:32,920
and parents speaking to parents.

556
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:36,040
So we would speak in schools and churches

557
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:39,800
and community organizations, mainly telling their story

558
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,000
but also offering resources for help.

559
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:44,960
So say what it is again,

560
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:48,320
so people can write it down and remember to go.

561
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,160
Yeah, it's under addiction resource council now,

562
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,760
but it's called Your Choice to Live.

563
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,760
And they also do webinars and stuff like that.

564
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:02,280
So why don't you kind of summarize some things

565
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:06,280
and speak to the moms who are listening

566
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:11,280
and who are facing children or even adults or siblings,

567
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:18,120
or even parents who are prodigals

568
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,240
who are especially involved in addiction?

569
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:25,240
What I've learned in my journey thus far,

570
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:30,240
Judy, is to live your God-given life.

571
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,040
We have so many gifts that God has given us

572
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,680
and He has plans for us.

573
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:39,880
And for me, I just let this derail me from all that.

574
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:44,880
I thought at the time it is my job for the rest of my life

575
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,880
to fix this and or feel sad about it.

576
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,960
I would get up in the morning as Ruth Bell Graham,

577
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,440
who also had a prodigal said,

578
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,360
you wake up not from a nightmare, but to a nightmare.

579
00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:59,840
And I let that consume me.

580
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:01,080
I didn't have any tools.

581
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:01,920
I didn't know.

582
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:03,120
I didn't know where to get help.

583
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,520
So I give myself that grace, but I would say get help.

584
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:08,560
I know you've heard this a hundred times

585
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:10,320
from people on your podcast.

586
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,600
Don't do this alone.

587
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,640
Do not isolate.

588
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:18,080
There are people who have walked away from their home

589
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,160
who have walked where you're walking.

590
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,560
And two more things, don't give up.

591
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,800
As long as there's breath in your child, in your loved one,

592
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:32,800
don't give up because things can change tomorrow.

593
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,040
Everything can turn around.

594
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,240
Yes, that's not everybody's experience.

595
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,320
We know that, but it's possible.

596
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,000
And then the third thing I would say, Judy,

597
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:48,080
and the help that I've gotten in the last 15 years

598
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,200
has so expanded my view of God.

599
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,400
And I used to think and pray,

600
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,360
well, God, you're just gonna give Ted a thought one day

601
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:57,400
lying in bed.

602
00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,520
He's gonna sit up and say,

603
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,960
wow, I need to change everything.

604
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,400
But that isn't how it worked for us.

605
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:10,400
And I remember the sense of God speaking to me saying,

606
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:12,600
you know what, honey, is it okay

607
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:17,600
if I use whatever way I want to to get Ted back?

608
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:19,720
Is that okay with you?

609
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,960
I would say too, to have in that same vein,

610
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,800
have an open mind that not everything has to be Christian.

611
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:32,840
Not everything has to be what you envision.

612
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:36,760
That God has no ties, no leashes.

613
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:37,720
He's not in a box.

614
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:41,440
He will use everything and anything he wants to.

615
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:45,600
And I needed to open my hands and just say,

616
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:47,320
do it your way.

617
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:52,360
Yeah, one of the things that we thought

618
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:55,280
would actually cause our son to take his life

619
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:59,400
was the death of his grandfather, whom he adored.

620
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:03,320
And instead, that motivated him

621
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:05,840
that he wanted to honor his grandfather.

622
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,040
He wanted to please him.

623
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,320
And so it was one of the major turning points for him

624
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:16,400
to walk away from his addictions and bad choices.

625
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:17,920
And yeah, so.

626
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:18,760
Interesting.

627
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:23,080
You don't know, but God has surprises.

628
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:28,080
And he doesn't give up either, just as he asks us not to.

629
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,040
Absolutely does not.

630
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:33,320
So Sarah, thank you so much.

631
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:38,320
I'm just so grateful for your openness and willingness

632
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:40,960
to share your hard journey

633
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:46,920
and give such wisdom and help to our listeners.

634
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,000
And I think they were very encouraged,

635
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,840
even blessed by the words that you've shared.

636
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:58,840
And so to my friends listening, what has stood out,

637
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:03,520
what especially seemed like a word just for you

638
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:07,760
of what you need to do, how you need to keep going

639
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:09,680
to not give up.

640
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:13,320
Again, if you don't write it down, you may forget it.

641
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:18,320
So I really encourage you to take a minute to write it down.

642
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:22,480
Now we're gonna give away three copies of Sarah's book,

643
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:24,320
Just Keep Going.

644
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:25,560
You'll love reading it.

645
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,320
It's easy reading, little short chapters,

646
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:32,800
because they're her journal things that she was writing.

647
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:37,800
And if you'd like to be in the drawing to receive one,

648
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,520
there's a link in the show notes

649
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,840
for you to be able to respond to that.

650
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:47,920
And that will put you in that opportunity.

651
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,200
And we're excited to give you those books.

652
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:55,200
So we'd love to know what you thought,

653
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,080
how this has been helpful to you.

654
00:33:58,080 --> 00:33:59,720
You can write to us.

655
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:03,400
There's a way there on the show notes to respond.

656
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:05,960
And so let us know.

657
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,480
And I'm sure Sarah would love to hear from you.

658
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,320
We'll be glad to pass on anything you give us

659
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:14,400
to her as well.

660
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:16,280
So thank you for that.

661
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:21,640
And next week listeners, we're going to talk

662
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:25,120
about turning curses into blessings.

663
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:30,120
A lot of times the things we say to our loved ones

664
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:36,000
seem like curses because we're so hurt and we're so angry.

665
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,640
But I'm gonna help you see a way

666
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:42,080
to turn those curses into blessings instead.

667
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:43,760
Thank you.

668
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:45,080
Thank you, Sarah.

669
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:45,920
Thank you so much, Judy.

670
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:55,920
And God bless you and God bless our listeners.